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HJ Officials or Competitors, any comment ?

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  • HJ Officials or Competitors, any comment ?

    I officiated at the Horizon League HJ's 2 days ago, and I feel a need to relate this:

    These pink, heavy, round crossbars, with the light green sleeves on the ends to provide a flat bottom, are too forgiving !

    I had one guy that hit the bar quite hard. It bounced up and down and around like crazy, finally settled, and then and only then did I call a fair clearance. On close examination, at one end, the flat part of the sleeve was 80 % out in the air ! It was skewed in the other direction at the other end , about 50% on , 50% off.

    Hey, I love HJ'ers and I am glad the guy made the height, but still....

  • #2
    It has been several years since I officiated the HJ regularly (I have been moved to PV, which is similar, and I do not do a large number of meets a year total). Thus, I only see the HJ from about 50 feet (indoors) and the similar but somewhat different PV.

    It seems to me that bars that are hit from below or from the side go off pretty easily while those hit from above can more easily stay on, even if bouncing, especially for the PV (I had one that bounced so that one end was on top of the standard somewhat above the peg -> Miss). They can get a lot of bend sometimes and bounce and stay on (PV standards are also a bit different because it has a side whereas the HJ is on top of two flat surfaces with the standards 'outside'). For the PV this might be a beneficial effect of the crossbar end, which has a semi-circle with the shaft close the the flat end.

    In general there can be quite a range of things that will knock/not knock the bar off.

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    • #3
      It is all part of the modern trend of artificiality. Good for you to take a stand.

      I remember once when I jumped in the Maccabiah games at L. A. High School against a rival from my school. He never beat me in a meet. He looked like he was finally going to have his day because had me on fewer misses and I was down to my last jump, when I cleared the height, only because as I rolled over and hit the bar, I somehow was able to make the bar go back toward the standard. The bar stood there, wiggling precariously, until it stayed. My friend walked out in disgust. I won, but felt embarrassed, because it was obvious that the standard should not have been that forgiving. It tainted the victory, no doubt about it.
      "Who's Kidding Who?"

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      • #4
        In my experience the luck of a bar staying on the pegs or falling off probably equaled itself out. Sometimes I'd wack it and it defied the laws of physics and stayed on, other times I'd barely touch it and the damn thing would fall off.

        As posted before, a latter instance once resulted in me exclaiming "[email protected]#* me" live on the BBC. My mother felt it didn't reflect the quality of my upbringing and requested that should such an unfortunate occurrence repeat itself, I exercise more self control...

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        • #5
          I worked HJ at Big 12 last weekend using the bar you described. I did not think they were either too forgiving or too easily dislodged.. we had a few quivers but no big bounces that stayed on... biggest nuisiance was the green sleeve on one end had to be constantly rotated to keep that end flat on the rest. The other sleeve was so tight it could not be rotated.. which actually made it easier to keep the same side up throughout the competition.
          I am just glad to be rid of the triangular aluminum bars.

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          • #6
            As Lonewolf said, anything is better than the old aluminum triangulars. More than once I (and other jumpers I witnessed) smacked a triangular so hard it rotated to a different side and came to rest for a clearance. Of course the cleared bar must have been a different ht. than the pre-jump measurement, but I never saw an official call such a jump a miss.

            Even worse, on a freak jump a person could actually bend the damn thing downward while it stayed perched on the standard. We used to play around trying to do that in practices back in the day and once in a while it would work.

            I liked the square balsa wood bars because they might sag or break but they never bent. On the other hand the balsa wood would dislodge from the standard if you exhaled too vigorously on clearance !!! (Well, maybe that is an exaggeration.)

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            • #7
              The whole thing is very unfair! If the guy you coach hits the bar ever so lightly it falls, no question. Other guys can clobber the bar and it stays on :lol:

              Sometimes you se a jumper hitting the bar twice and it stays on. The second touch actually puts the bar back in place.

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              • #8
                I've also seen that happen a bunch myself. The hips will hit the bar dead on. The bar bounces up once the they've cleared, but the calves steady it in place.
                If you're ever walking down the beach and you see a girl dressed in a bikini made out of seashells, and you pick her up and hold her to your ear, you can hear her scream.

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                • #9
                  Re the prior poster that talked of the old aluminum bars flipping over and staying on, am I not correct, that in such a circumstance, for official record purposes, the bar needed to be remeasured and a lower final height could prevail, if the flipped-over side was lower ?

                  Additionally, is it not correct that ANY record clearance should/needs to be remeasured after( particularly so) as well as before the successful clearance, even if it was cleared cleanly ?

                  I know that at the Horizon mmet last weekend, the winner ( at 2.08) then tried 3 times at 2.14, obviously looking for that magical 7 footer. That being the case I remeasured the bar not only before his first attempt , but also before his 2nd and 3rd attempts. Correct to do so, yes ?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                    Additionally, is it not correct that ANY record clearance should/needs to be remeasured after( particularly so) as well as before the successful clearance, even if it was cleared cleanly ?
                    Remeaurement after a record clearance used to be required, but that hasn't been the rule for about 20 years now.

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                    • #11
                      I've always called those old UCS Spirit crossbars "PR bars". Those things get better (or worse, depending on your POV) with age and there's one university down here that pulls out their remaining one from at least 10 years ago for meets. It'll be a sad day when it finally bites the dust.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jhc68
                        Even worse, on a freak jump a person could actually bend the damn thing downward while it stayed perched on the standard.
                        A teammate of mine did that in a meet. The aluminum triangle bent, the whole bar popped up in the air and landed on the standards and somehow stayed up. The lowest part of the bent bar was probably close to a foot lower than it had been. It was all quite amusing.

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                        • #13
                          Are there specific standards about the surface of the bar vis-a-vis the resting place on the standards? For example, the old aluminum triangles were a slick, metallic surface usually resting on slick, metallic standards so they were easily dislodged. As a result, coaches and jumpers often taped the ends of the bar to create more friction and hold the things in place more effectively. Modern bars tend to have a rubberized end piece, but the rules I've seen are pretty vague about how the surface is constituted.

                          Two more questions:

                          Is there still a limit on the length of the bar? Ed Caruthers set a national JC HJ mark in 1965 (apparently eclipsing Joe Faust's record) but the jump was never ratified because the crossbar was too long. My memory is that the standards were correctly placed but the bar itself was too long (my memory may be foggy!)

                          Also, if the bar actually pops up into the air and lands back on the standard (as we have all seen at one time or another), should the official rule it a clearance or a miss? USTAF says it is a failure if "the bar does not remain on the supports because of the action of the competitor while jumping". Does this mean the bar comes to rest on the standard when the jump is completed (clearly the rules forbid steadying the bar on purpose)? But if the bar actually becomes airborne as a result of being touched by the jumper then it "does not remain on the supports", does it? Practically speaking, I know you'd have a rabid coach if such a ruling were made.

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                          • #14
                            re the above, surely "remain" means remain after the the jump is fully completed and the bar has stabilized, and not continuously from the initial moment of any jumper-bar impact.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tandfman
                              Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                              Additionally, is it not correct that ANY record clearance should/needs to be remeasured after( particularly so) as well as before the successful clearance, even if it was cleared cleanly ?
                              Remeaurement after a record clearance used to be required, but that hasn't been the rule for about 20 years now.
                              Interesting info, thank you ! But with the universal use of fiberglass bars, and only one flat side, it seems ok to me.

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