Get Ready for Small Individual Fields at NCAA Indoor Meet

[KevinM]

15 teams went auto tonight in the DMR at Notre Dame. Three others have already done so. Depending on how many of these guys are already high on the individual form charts, provisional qualifiers could be few and far between this year.

http://www.deltatiming.com/results/htre ... 090306F009

Event 9 Men Distance Medley
================================================== ==============
NCAA Auto: # 9:34.00
NCAA Prov: ! 9:45.70
School Finals
================================================== ==============
Finals
1 Virginia 'A' 9:29.86#
1) Taye, Sintayehu 2) Paschal, Meikle
3) Roller, Lance 4) Jesien, Andrew
2 Byu 'A' 9:29.97#
1) Gustafsson, Jacob 2) Biesenger, Kevin
3) Jensen, Keith 4) Perry, Kyle
3 Virginia Tech 'A' 9:30.24#
1) Judge, Eddie 2) Vaughn, Nick
3) Witt, Ryan 4) Berlin, Billy
4 Villanova 'A' 9:30.37#
1) Williams, Christopher 2) Lewis, Elvis
3) Tully, Sean 4) Gibney, Matthew
5 New Mexico 'A' 9:30.38#
1) Bishop, David 2) Roberts, Dominick
3) Steadman, Ryan 4) Emanuel, Lee
6 Wisconsin 'A' 9:30.57#
1) Miller, Craig 2) Evans, Quinn
3) Ludwig, Steven 4) Bolas, Jack
7 Texas 'A' 9:30.77#
1) Hernandez, Jacob 2) Fortson, Danzell
3) Miller, Kyle 4) Carmody, Mike
8 Georgetown 'A' 9:31.19#
1) Roberts, Sandy 2) Harris, Danny
3) Maloy, John 4) Bumbalough, Andrew
9 Oklahoma 'A' 9:31.38#
1) Cooper, Scott 2) Warren, Jarell
3) Sweeney, Chris 4) Boone, Jacob
10 Northern Iowa 'A' 9:31.50#
1) Perkins, Andrew 2) Goos, Cory
3) Mulder, Tyler 4) Vandenabeele, Thibault
11 Indiana 'A' 9:31.81#
1) Turner, De'Sean 2) Gunnell, John
3) Bardach, Evan 4) Hubers, Ben
12 Utep 'A' 9:31.82#
1) Tanui, Dominic 2) Mutegi, Anderson
3) Chirchir, Aggrey 4) Ng'etich, Nicodemus
13 Kent State 'A' 9:32.05#
1) Minen, John 2) Eaton, Curtis
3) Heasley, Destin 4) Jordanek, Tony
14 Penn State 'A' 9:32.94#
1) Borchers, Samuel 2) Cadau, Mike
3) Foster, Ryan 4) Johnson, Tim
15 Auburn 'A' 9:33.32#
1) Weerts, Jean-Pierre 2) Dehaven, Michael
3) Kiboiywo, Felix 4) Kibet, Elkanah
16 Cornell 'A' 9:35.13!
1) Miller, Andrew 2) McClain, Kenny
3) Levy, Andrew 4) Wyner, Jimmy
17 Missouri 'A' 9:37.17!
1) Cornell, Tim 2) Irwin, Blake
3) Davis, Chris 4) Graybill, Brian
18 Minnesota 'A' 9:40.46!
1) Richardson, Andy 2) Stroman, Logan
3) Storvick, Hans 4) Blankenship, Ben
-- Texas A&M 'A' DNF
1) Toohey, Nick 2) Preble, Michael
3) Ramirez, Oscar 4) Ondrasek, Kevin

[BisonHurdler]

I called a friend of mine earlier tonight to let him know Penn State's time. His reply was "wow, that's pretty good, did they win?"

[donley2]

So how many teams total would that mean in the DMR? What is the normal field size? As someone who already has tickets to NCAA indoor it would really stink if it does affect the field sizes. Does the NCAA have any "emergency" clause that would allow them to declare auto qualifiers to no longer be auto qualifiers.

[Bruce Kritzler]

That's about 20 teams with auto's. Probably means two sections at ncaa. The total number of athletes in the meet is capped, so the dmr is contributing about 80. This does mean that the individual events will have smaller fields than usual. The usual size of dmr and 4x4 is about 10-12 teams.

[ed gee]

Perhaps having the cones positioned inside the line and allowing the runners to run a shorter path contributed to the fast times. Certainly if there had been a rail on the track, the runners would have found it difficult to be so close to the line.

What are the rules re cone placement on tracks w/o rails?

[26mi235]

Perhaps having the cones positioned inside the line and allowing the runners to run a shorter path contributed to the fast times. Certainly if there had been a rail on the track, the runners would have found it difficult to be so close to the line.

What are the rules re cone placement on tracks w/o rails?

Is the lane standard width, i.e., is there the 12in/30cm cushion rather than the 8in/20cm cushion. If so, then I would think that the cones should be up to the outside edge of the line and not inside, but that only adds two inches (but the possibility of a DQ for going on the line?). I have thought that cones are not as big a disincentive as a rail.

[ed gee]

Not sure of the specifics, but am open to second opinions.
I agree with you on the rails vs cones.

http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage ... 735/159278

http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage ... 735/159284

[tandfman]

Perhaps having the cones positioned inside the line and allowing the runners to run a shorter path contributed to the fast times. Certainly if there had been a rail on the track, the runners would have found it difficult to be so close to the line.

What are the rules re cone placement on tracks w/o rails?

The cones are supposed to be placed so that they cover the inside lane line. Placing them on the infield inside the line definitely shortens the race distance. I believe the difference is about a foot per lap.

[polevaultpower]

So I don't get it... they set the track up wrong, an insane number of teams qualified, and now athletes in every single other event will not get to go to Nationals because of it?

[dj]

The NCAA rule regarding curbing and track measurement which pertain to indoor events is Rule 10.2.3, which includes the following language:

"Where the inside edge of the track is bordered by a white line, it shall be marked additionally with cones. The cones shall be at least 15cm high. Cones shall be placed on the track so that the outward face of the cone coincides with the edge of the white line closest to the track when the track is surveyed based on the existence of a curb. Otherwise, cones shall be placed on the infield adjacent to the line."

So, if the ND track was measured 20cm from the line, the cones were properly placed. If the track was measured 30cm from the line, as if there were a curb, the cones were improperly placed.

Qualifying for the outdoor championships must be on a curbed track. There is no such requirement indoors.

[Bruce Kritzler]

The total field size for ncaa men's indoor is 284. The minimum field size for individual events is 14, and for relays, 10. The 18 dmr's currently qualified would contribute 72 athletes. Add 10 4x4's contributing 40. Figure one guy per relay team is already an individual qualifier. That leaves only 200 spots for individual events, when there are supposed to be 210 (15 events x 14 entrants).
The cones have replaced curbs for about 10 yrs., so don't think that is the reason for all the qualifiers.

[Gleason]

Small Individual Fields

The total field size for ncaa men's indoor is 284. The minimum field size for individual events is 14, and for relays, 10. The 18 dmr's currently qualified would contribute 72 athletes. Add 10 4x4's contributing 40. Figure one guy per relay team is already an individual qualifier. That leaves only 200 spots for individual events, when there are supposed to be 210 (15 events x 14 entrants).
The cones have replaced curbs for about 10 yrs., so don't think that is the reason for all the qualifiers.

I assume that teams with auto qualifiers aren't required to enter because only eight teams score points. eg. Oregon may enter Rupp in 5000 & 3000, Wheating in 800 & Centrowitz in Mile -- not in DMR which is right after 5000 on friday.

Forty years ago Kansas had to have special permission to enter three shot putters (they swept). Oregon could have three individuals in some distances. Is this allowed or are schools limited to two entrants/event?

[Bruce Kritzler]

No limit on number of athletes from one school in one event. Remember Stanford going 1,2,3 in 10k a few years ago. Think Arizona women may have went 1,2,3 in hj also?

[Gleason]

Small Individual Fields

No limit on number of athletes from one school in one event. Remember Stanford going 1,2,3 in 10k a few years ago. Think Arizona women may have went 1,2,3 in hj also?

Thanks for the response. I should have added that I was referring to INDOORS. World Indoor has a limit of two per nation probably because of indoor crowding, so that is the reason for my question.

[KevinM]

Re: Small Individual Fields

No limit on number of athletes from one school in one event. Remember Stanford going 1,2,3 in 10k a few years ago. Think Arizona women may have went 1,2,3 in hj also?

Thanks for the response. I should have added that I was referring to INDOORS. World Indoor has a limit of two per nation probably because of indoor crowding, so that is the reason for my question.

Field sizes are naturally limited by the qualifying standards and selection procedure, so more athletes from one school qualifying in a given event simply means less athletes from other schools qualifying, keeping the fields managed.