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Get Ready for Small Individual Fields at NCAA Indoor Meet

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  • #31
    Originally posted by tandfman
    Originally posted by 26mi235
    I did not watch the entire video closely, but I do not remember seeing anyone stepping on the inside line.
    Whether or not anyone actually steps on the line is irrelevant. Wherever the cones are placed, the athletes will run a certain distance from them in order to avoid tripping on them. I believe that distance will be a constant for each runner, and will not vary depending on where the line is. And so the runners will run closer to the line (and thus a shorter total distance) if the cones are placed entirely inside of the line, rather than covering the line.
    Some people said that they saw them stepping on the line - doing so on the curve might be a lane violation (in the absence of the comes being in the right place).

    As for the shortened distance, the calculation I made seems to indicate that the savings does not account for the fast times (0.4 seconds for the DMR, 0.16 for the mile, 0.08 for the 800).

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by gh
      Originally posted by Bruce Kritzler
      That's about 20 teams with auto's. Probably means two sections at ncaa. The total number of athletes in the meet is capped, so the dmr is contributing about 80. This does mean that the individual events will have smaller fields than usual. The usual size of dmr and 4x4 is about 10-12 teams.
      Declarations now up; basically, men getting 14 athletes per individual event, women getting 17.

      There should be some kind of safety valve for when too many people get auto qualifiers, or whatever reason. Allow something more than normal OK, but not everybody. So not only do we get severely depleted individual events, there's also a completely unwieldy DM. Dumb.
      Here are the number of teams that have competed in the DMR since 1994, the year it was added back to the indoor meet as a final-only event.

      1994--10
      1995--10
      1996--10
      1997--10
      1998--10
      1999--11
      2000--12
      2001--12
      2002--12
      2003--12
      2004--13
      2005--10
      2006--12
      2007--11
      2008--11

      Comment


      • #33
        18 teams have declared for this year's Men's DMR, all but three of them got their listed times this past weekend at Notre Dame. Fortunately, the DMR is the last event on the program Friday evening, so if they have to run two sections, it won't mess up anything other than dinner plans. Of course, a two-section DMR final is hardly ideal, but I think it beats putting 18 teams on the track.

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        • #34
          I never felt that there were not that many realy teams capable of running that fast. To me the issue is the measurement and subsequent cone placement of the ND indoor track. I still think there needs to be some questions asked and answers given ('splainin'). (I really like that word- and especially the double apostrophes.) (With "Apostrophe" being my favorite Zappa album also.)

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by tandfman
            ... Of course, a two-section DMR final is hardly ideal, but I think it beats putting 18 teams on the track.
            You obviously were never a fan of the Islip Speedway's Figure 8 racing!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by gh
              Originally posted by tandfman
              ... Of course, a two-section DMR final is hardly ideal, but I think it beats putting 18 teams on the track.
              You obviously were never a fan of the Islip Speedway's Figure 8 racing!
              Ought to run a revised devil-take-the-hindmost. Put nine teams on opposite sides of the track. Shoot the gun. Any team caught by the opposite pack gets pulled from the track.

              Comment


              • #37
                It will be very interesting to see how the ND qualified teams perform this weekend. I've only done a cursory look at prior seasonal bests but I'll posit a guess that most of the ND qualified teams are 3-4+ seconds slower than their ND times.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by dj
                  Originally posted by gh
                  Originally posted by tandfman
                  ... Of course, a two-section DMR final is hardly ideal, but I think it beats putting 18 teams on the track.
                  You obviously were never a fan of the Islip Speedway's Figure 8 racing!
                  Ought to run a revised devil-take-the-hindmost. Put nine teams on opposite sides of the track. Shoot the gun. Any team caught by the opposite pack gets pulled from the track.
                  Would make good entertainment and encourage some interesting strategies.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Small Fields at NCAA

                    Originally posted by tandfman
                    18 teams have declared for this year's Men's DMR, all but three of them got their listed times this past weekend at Notre Dame. Fortunately, the DMR is the last event on the program Friday evening, so if they have to run two sections, it won't mess up anything other than dinner plans. Of course, a two-section DMR final is hardly ideal, but I think it beats putting 18 teams on the track.
                    Of course 18 teams in the final isn't ideal, but it is manageable:

                    1. Because team scoring is important at the NCAA & because pacing can differ widely in distances, keep all teams in one section.

                    2. Change the order to 1600 - 1200 - 800 - 400. I saw this at a relay meet 40 years ago & it wasn't a problem.

                    3. Split the 1600 leg into two groups -- have 12 teams start from a curved line in lane 1. Have the remaining six teams run the first two laps in lanes 4 - 6 from a curved line in lane 4. Cones can be used to manage this.
                    none

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      It will be interesting to see how they handle it, and how it works out.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Helen S
                        I never felt that there were not that many realy teams capable of running that fast. To me the issue is the measurement and subsequent cone placement of the ND indoor track. I still think there needs to be some questions asked and answers given ('splainin'). (I really like that word- and especially the double apostrophes.) (With "Apostrophe" being my favorite Zappa album also.)
                        Helen, I do not think that this had any impact at all. Unless my calculations are off, the difference is only 0.40 seconds. Only one team was over 9:33.0 (9:34.00 the auto), and they were at about 9:33.2. You would certainly change the race if the ND meet were tossed, but it seems unlikely that doing so is a remedy that makes any sense and is out of proportion to the circumstances (why should the athletes be severely punished for the officials mistake. If someone running the PV makes a mistake and gives an athlete more time on a jump (say, they made a mistake and thought there were only three left when there were four left at the beginning of a height) should they be disallowed for qualification? I understand that certification of a track is a different issue but still, the number of qualifying teams is not affected in this case.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Ten teams at A&M this weekend 9:30. or better?
                          In '94 only Arkansas did it with a 9:30.07CR -- 2:56.8, 45.7,1:51.3,3:56.3-- with NCAA champs at 800(Bruton 1M),400(Davis) legs, and Hood running a 3:56 anchor.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 26mi235
                            Originally posted by Helen S
                            I never felt that there were not that many realy teams capable of running that fast. To me the issue is the measurement and subsequent cone placement of the ND indoor track. I still think there needs to be some questions asked and answers given ('splainin'). (I really like that word- and especially the double apostrophes.) (With "Apostrophe" being my favorite Zappa album also.)
                            Helen, I do not think that this had any impact at all. Unless my calculations are off, the difference is only 0.40 seconds. Only one team was over 9:33.0 (9:34.00 the auto), and they were at about 9:33.2. You would certainly change the race if the ND meet were tossed, but it seems unlikely that doing so is a remedy that makes any sense and is out of proportion to the circumstances (why should the athletes be severely punished for the officials mistake. If someone running the PV makes a mistake and gives an athlete more time on a jump (say, they made a mistake and thought there were only three left when there were four left at the beginning of a height) should they be disallowed for qualification? I understand that certification of a track is a different issue but still, the number of qualifying teams is not affected in this case.
                            As I said above, I am not at all concerned with the numbers of qualifiers for the NCAA. I am concerned that in something that should be so cut and dried as distance run can be questioned at a well used facility. And this seems to be something that can easily be looked into. I would love to see a statement made by someone at ND that the records for track measurement and certification are all on the up and up and conces were palced either correctly or incorrectly. I am not speculating either way on something that seems so simple to get an answer to.
                            That being said, has anyone asked the question to either the NCAA or UND track personnel?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Besides the big things, I have noticed small things at ND. For instance, they have made consistent mistakes on their determination of placings in the PV (although they got the HJ correct). Not a big deal in itself, but it does indicate that little things are not being done correctly.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Small Fields at NCAA

                                Originally posted by Gleason
                                Originally posted by tandfman
                                18 teams have declared for this year's Men's DMR, all but three of them got their listed times this past weekend at Notre Dame. Fortunately, the DMR is the last event on the program Friday evening, so if they have to run two sections, it won't mess up anything other than dinner plans. Of course, a two-section DMR final is hardly ideal, but I think it beats putting 18 teams on the track.
                                Of course 18 teams in the final isn't ideal, but it is manageable:

                                1. Because team scoring is important at the NCAA & because pacing can differ widely in distances, keep all teams in one section.

                                2. Change the order to 1600 - 1200 - 800 - 400. I saw this at a relay meet 40 years ago & it wasn't a problem.

                                3. Split the 1600 leg into two groups -- have 12 teams start from a curved line in lane 1. Have the remaining six teams run the first two laps in lanes 4 - 6 from a curved line in lane 4. Cones can be used to manage this.
                                Start lists are now up. They decided to run the men's DMR in two sections on a time basis, with the fastest teams in the second section.

                                Comment

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