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Speeding up the jumps [split]

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  • Speeding up the jumps [split]

    Originally posted by gh
    [Your analysis is spot-on. By the time heat 1 has taken its 10 seconds to get down the track, heat 2 should already be at the line, ready to tinker with their blocks.
    When I am running a horizontal jump, I have the "on deck" jumper literally on deck behind the "up" jumper and the "on hold" jumper is getting sweats off on their own time ready to move on deck.

    Cuts 20 minutes off a 90 minute two flight + final competition when jumpers are permitted lollygag..

  • #2
    I split this off because it's a bit of a different animal than false starts.

    But I'm glad to hear you do this, and wish everyboddy else would too. We also need less theatrics from those calling the fouls at the line. We've all seen the people there who can't resist their moment in the sun (on every jump) so they wait and peer at the plasticine forever, then with a great dramatic flair finally signal a fair jump.

    Actually, part of this could be solved by a simple rule change (that would also apply to the TJ and to the throws. Regulations about leaving the pit before measure, or throwers having to exit from the back half of the ring. The original intent of these rules is to make sure that the athlete is under control, so it isn't actually a foul. If the athlete has clearly stopped moving, and has control of body, it shouldn't matter when/where they exit the bloody area of play. The measuring should begin right away. This too would save significant time in getting field events out of the way.

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    • #3
      This highlights the importance of uniformity in officialdom. I am yet to hear the IAAF address this issue. Far too often poor starters create chaos at the start of sprints and the athletes are left with a "c'est la vie" response from the suits.
      It would appear to me that punishment of athletes drives the IAAF as opposed to thoroughly assessed dispensations!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by gh
        I
        Actually, part of this could be solved by a simple rule change (that would also apply to the TJ and to the throws. Regulations about leaving the pit before measure, or throwers having to exit from the back half of the ring. The original intent of these rules is to make sure that the athlete is under control, so it isn't actually a foul. If the athlete has clearly stopped moving, and has control of body, it shouldn't matter when/where they exit the bloody area of play. The measuring should begin right away. This too would save significant time in getting field events out of the way.
        A hearty AMEN! to that.. It is a useless rule. Waiting for a jumper to wander around the far end of the pit deciding which side to exit is wasted time.

        Rule 6-7-3-d, stipulating a foul for making first contact with ground outside the landing area closer to takeoff than first mark in sand is superfulous. A marginally close step out under control has no effect on the completed jump. The pit judge can easily determine if exit was 1.) under the momentum of the jump or 2.) was a jump backwards out of the pit to prevent falling back into the pit.
        Rule 6-7-3-c preventing jumpers from extending a hand, supporting upper body and flipping out of the pit is a justifiable rule.

        A step in the right direction was made a couple of years ago when stepping back in the pit after a jump has been ruled fair was declared not a foul and measurement time was not wasted by a jumper strolling back to negate a bad jump.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by gh
          We also need less theatrics from those calling the fouls at the line. We've all seen the people there who can't resist their moment in the sun (on every jump) so they wait and peer at the plasticine forever, then with a great dramatic flair finally signal a fair jump. .
          I will admit, there are officials who "milk" the moment but, I think frequently the delay is because it was obviously a visual foul and the board judge is looking for a mark in the plasticine. The theatrics are optional.
          The ironic thing about plasticine is a 1-2 mm foul leaves a tiny crescent in a well prepared plasticine board while a 2 cm foul may ride over the top of the plasticine, the foot is supported by the front spikes and the foot does not "touch the ground beyond the foul line." No mark. No foul.

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          • #6
            Great post to see from the side of the officials. At the lower levels things need to be organized that much more. Lining up the athletes just like you said saves so much time, and is so simple to do that it amazes me most officials don't do this.

            I big source of frustration for myself, other coaches, and athletes is the amount of time wasted between jumps. Not only in moving the order along, but as gh says "less theatrics."

            Keeping it simple is the obvious way to go!


            http://www.track-and-field-jumpers.com
            http://www.track-and-field-jumpers.com

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            • #7
              I most often officiate the pole vault. It is not a fast event because it takes time to get the bar up, get the standard setting from the next vaulter, set (and verify) the standard setting, and call the jump order. It is particularly difficult when there are only two people assisting (especially if some are neophytes), while I am trying to record the vault, keep track of five-alive (in a big meet), be heard in a noisy indoor venue, time the vault, get the standards from the vaulters and answer questions that arise... [PVP, have any suggestions?]

              Lately I have been having the on-deck vaulter signal the standard settings on a board as soon as the current vaulter goes down the runway. I find that this cuts about 10 seconds off the average time of the event.

              Still, athletes that milk all of the time from the limit for consecutive vaults (3 min) and for the last three (3) and final vaulter (5) can take a very long time to wrap up an event when the next group is wanting to get on the runway.

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              • #8
                Since this is the Horizontal Jump Clinic thread, I will add a couple more helpful hints on Flight Coordinating that may be old hat to old timers but possibly new to some neophytes..
                When I Flight Coordinate, I demand the jumpers attention and line them up at parade rest in jumping order before each flight to give instructions, including the up, on deck, on hold procedure I expect..if you get their attention from the start you seldom have to even call them up after the first round.
                I address all athletes above elementary school age as Mr or Ms and get the correct pronounciation of their names at the line up. Purely a personal preference but I feel it kinda sets a mutually respectful relationship.
                If you haven't done this a few thousand times it is helpful and permissible to have a "cheat sheet" of points to cover, which may include local ground rules for this meet.
                It is not demeaning or insulting to recite the basic rules of long jumping. I am frequently amazed at the lack of knowledge of presumably experienced jumpers.
                Do not check off a jumper until they hit the board. They may stop and come back. Also, I do not just make a check or an X. All check marks look alike. I record the actual time to the minute. It is just as easy and makes it easier to tell if you checked that jumper off.
                And, when a jumper comes back after being excused for another event and claims to have another jump coming, you can say, "NO, you jumped at 2:33, 2:41 and 2:49"
                And, it is a ready back up reference for start and stop time for flights and finals when the recorder fails to write times down..
                And, it spots bottlenecks and slowpokes.
                I stand on the runway forward of fhe start mark closest to the pit and forbid the jumpers to pass me until I step off the runway. When I get the signal from the pit, I step off the runway as a clear signal to the timer to start the clock. It can get a little wearying on a long hot day but I feel it lets the jumpers know you are paying attention and in this with them, as opposed to sitting in a chair in the shade.
                I designed a laminated 8.5 x 11 card with a large P on one side and a # on the other. Flash the card at the recorder for Passes or jumps out of order Similarly, for meets with a qualifying session, I have a card with a large Q that the recorder flashes to inform me a jumper has qualified and is to be removed from the competition. The other side of this card has a large T that informs the recorder of a Time Foul on a late jumper. Pretty well eliminates trips down the runway to communicate with the board/recorder.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by lonewolf
                  I record the actual time to the minute. It is just as easy and makes it easier to tell if you checked that jumper off.
                  And, when a jumper comes back after being excused for another event and claims to have another jump coming, you can say, "NO, you jumped at 2:33, 2:41 and 2:49"
                  And, it is a ready back up reference for start and stop time for flights and finals when the recorder fails to write times down..
                  And, it spots bottlenecks and slowpokes.
                  I actually start'd doing what you outlined this year (despite my # of years FC) and it got me out of a jam when I had a jumper contest the fact he was actually excused from the competition to compete in another event. Although he made the final, he argued that he was entitled to another preliminary attempt. He forgot that I allowed him to jump out of order to insure he received all this jumps to help him make the final.

                  Check marks wouldn't have saved my bacon with the event head and the field referee, but the actual times list'd on that sheet sure did.

                  Also, the laminated cards denoting "Pass", Check #, and the like are extremely helpful aids because as you indicated, they really assist in speeding up the event.

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                  • #10
                    argument against using video of board - shoe? rather than officials making judgment? musta been considered sometime ...

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                    • #11
                      I have worked a number of major and national meets in recent years with ndamix . He is welcome on my horizontal jump crew anytime.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by no one
                        argument against using video of board - shoe? rather than officials making judgment? musta been considered sometime ...
                        I understand video/laser is sometimes used in Europe and has been used in the US. Officials who have used it outdoors say the system they used was susceptible to rain, flying wood chips and dirt.

                        My only experience with a video/laser system was for the combined events LJ at a meet last year where plasticine was not in use. It worked beautifully but there was a short learning curve. While the laser is a pin point, the red dot is actually 2-3 cm diameter and, unless adjusted so the runway edge of the dot is at the foul line, it will reflect off a shoe tip which is actually not foul. The visual call was official but a post-event review confirmed that all "close calls" were called correctly visually.

                        Reviews have to be in slow/stop motion. It is actually easier to make correct calls visually than from the video playback in real time. . A foot is on the board for only a milli-second. On video focused on the foul line, you cannot follow the jumper down the runway and shift your gaze to the board three steps out. If you hunker over the board, staring at the foul line, there is a high possibility that you will blink at that milli-second and miss the jump.

                        This was a proto-type, assembled "off the shelf" for, as I recall, less than $200.
                        For routine use, a more elaborate "instant replay" system would be needed. Of course, some jumps are obviously safe or so blatantly foul that the video/laser is rendered moot but if consulted on every jump would slow down the event considerably.

                        Video/laser is certainly preferable to plasticine for "over the line" calls. I do not know how it could be adapted to "touch the ground beyond the line" calls.

                        I have no objection to using a tweaked system for confirming close calls. It certainly makes the Board Judge job less stressful.

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                        • #13
                          so, sounds like 'no false negative' (or positive for that matter) technology has been tried and - favorable reviews? Sounds also like the powers that be are mulling it over ?- cost factor included? All kinds of war stories about jumpers being robbed or at the very least - questioning calls.

                          My bro had one jump called foul in what would have been his first 50 footer and a 1st place (So Cal JC). I was at the board and 'saw' it as about 2 inches behind foul line. My view of course no count - whereas the 60 or 70 yr old guy's was. No intent to slam all of the officials we get tho. Just a bit of a heart break for him. He jumped 50+ numerous times later in career.

                          We've all (I think) lived with 72' oly B Ball gold medal officiating-type experiences eh? Goes with the territory.

                          But I think anything that can be done to advance fairness is worthy of consideration. And in this case seems like headed that direction.

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                          • #14
                            I too have seen bad calls by incompetent officials. Some officials are too timid to call the close fouls and some are too eager. Woefully, some may have an agenda and are too cognizant of who is jumping. Ideally, it is just an anonymous foot on the board. It is not a committee decision and 99.999999999% of the time, an experienced official knows instantly, to his satisfaction, whether a jump is fair or foul. I try to be consistent so no one benefits or is punished by a hairline call. There will be no "make up calls" like we sometimes see in basketball and football.
                            You will hear groans about close fouls from spectators 50 ' away at an angle but unless you are precisely on the foul line, you cannot call the close ones. If you are even slightly behind the board the jump will look foul. If you are ahead of the board, the same jump will appear to be fair. That said, a 2" or 3" safe jump should never be misscalled.

                            My personal philosophy is: If there is any doubt in my mind, "ties go to the jumper.
                            Age need not be a factor if the official has good eyesight and mental acuity. I have mutual agreements with some of my peers to tell each other when it is time to retire or recuse from certain officiating positions.
                            ".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lonewolf
                              My personal philosophy is: If there is any doubt in my mind, "ties go to the jumper.

                              Age need not be a factor if the official has good eyesight and mental acuity. I have mutual agreements with some of my peers to tell each other when it is time to retire or recuse from certain officiating positions.
                              ".
                              Amen...and thanks for the earlier compliment.

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