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So did Churandy Martina run today or what?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by EPelle
    I asked you to consider why athletes (Martina in this context, as it followed a logical progression of chronological dialogue) improve, and who is helping them get there rather than focusing solely on what they did in previous years
    eh ?

    then we shoud forget clyde hart & franno

    all these 200 guys in the world are wasting their time with their coaches

    they shoud all head down to el paso & wendell prince

    Is he a 46,13 athlete today? If he ran a 400m all-out, would you not expect him to be in the neighbourhood of 45,6? That's a 0,73s improvement. According to you (0,73 * 0,0625), Martina could look at dropping his 100m 0,045s, or down to 9,88.
    no

    i woudn't use a 400 improvement until they actually show one on the track & then work from there

    as far as i'm concerned, his current 400 ability coud be anywhere between 44 - 48s - proof in the pudding being that his 400 actually got worse in '08 from '07, going from 46.13 to 46.51

    now get back to nonsense statement of why past form shoud be ignored when assessing future prospects...

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    • #17
      (FINAL)

      Didn't state that. Re-read that. "Solely" was the key word. It was completely in line with Martina's improvement, not anyone else's (even folks in his own circle of influence). He's had talent. He's maximised the efforts and reduced the noise around him - with a trainer he's had since he was 14 years old. His trainer expected great things from Martina in 2008. The only issue at heart now is why they wouldn't expect him to continue achieving good marks (and medal places) in this, a world championship year.

      Wind in El Paso was what last year?

      You've created the noise and "nonsense" in an effort to bi-pass your statement of 20,2. This was about Martina, and dialogue and discussion which followed was also about the same subject. How a 20,5 guy ended up in there (as well as Hart and competitive 200m sprinters) and nonsense about ignoring his previous record in predicting a 19,5 was a product of your own doing.

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      • #18
        nonsense

        he barely made any improvement in '06 & '07 whilst still in el paso with same coach/set-up/etc

        if you seriously believe going from 20.2 to 19.76-basic in 1 season, whilst already having been there 2y, is just a question of "noise-reduction" then you must be profoundly deaf

        Wind in El Paso was what last year?
        no idea - much different from '07 was it ?

        you're clutching at straws - his 400 got worse between '07 & '08

        now get back to nonsense statement of why past form shoud be ignored when assessing future prospects...

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by eldrick
          he barely made any improvement in '06 & '07 whilst still in el paso with same coach/set-up/etc
          Again, par for the course. You're so interested in the end result that you care not how one got there. Who trained him in 2006 and 2007? Who trained him in 2008? Are the situations different between the seasons? Yes, Bob Kitchens trained him during the 2006 and 2007 seasons. Everything (everyone) out of UTEP in 2008 pointed toward Martina possibly being the best in the world one day; he's fast for his age. Kitchens stated it. A re-introduction of a previous trainer who knows this guy's work ethic and capitalised on it was part of the improvement equation.

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          • #20
            thanks for correction

            http://www.trackshark.com/interviews/20 ... artina.php

            prince coached him carib, kitchens coached him from '06 onwards & then back to prince

            Everything (everyone) out of UTEP in 2008 pointed toward Martina possibly being the best in the world one day; he's fast for his age
            you do realise at the time that meant running 9.73 & at worst 19.61 ???

            if anyone seriously believed that of an established 23y ole ~ 10.06/20.20 guy, they wouda needed psychiatric treatment

            you seriously believe that all it takes to go from 20.2 to 19.76 is a simple switchback to school-coach ???

            Comment


            • #21
              Nope. But he was on to something (better training; more intensity; and, more importantly, a focussed international season).

              I hope you are wrong with the 20,2 analysis. He'd make a great sustained rival for those you earlier mentioned.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by EPelle
                Nope. But he was on to something (better training; more intensity; and, more importantly, a focussed international season)
                maybe that'd get you from 20.2 after being stuck there for 2y, down to 20-flat ( & he had all the opportunities do so a year earlier in osaka - but didn't ), but i'm afraid it's incredulous to believe it will get you to 19.76

                I hope you are wrong with the 20,2 analysis. He'd make a great sustained rival for those you earlier mentioned.
                well, evidence of post-peking race :

                20.24 -0.9 Churandy Martina 2 Lausanne 02/09/2008

                he was back grazing in 20.2 fields ( 20.24-basic )...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by eldrick

                  if someone picked this guy to run 19.76-basic in peking after entering '08 as a 20.20 guy, someone kindly ask them to post next week's lottery numbers
                  Bolt improved from 19.75 to 19.30 in the same year, but entering the year as a career 200 specialist. Martina was almost exclusively a 100 man pre-2008.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    there's a difference given their achievements/expectations/etc

                    bolt wouda possibly been a 5 to 10/1 shot to go from 19.75 to 19.30 into a 0.9, given slowing progress in previous coupla years

                    chundy wouda been possibly a 25 to 50/1 shot to go from 20.2 to 19.82 into same wind

                    only 2 men in history have ploughed that far thru 20 on popping their cherry

                    - King from 20.2 to 19.75 - but that's why he was the King

                    - Dix from 20.25 to 19.69, but he had some credentials as 10.06AJR & 20.37WJRi

                    chundy never gave off similar vibes...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by eldrick
                      well, evidence of post-peking race :

                      20.24 -0.9 Churandy Martina 2 Lausanne 02/09/2008

                      he was back grazing in 20.2 fields ( 20.24-basic )...
                      Yes, into head wind. Usain Bolt won this race, and he didn't come close to his performance from Beijing, either. Actually, the time difference was comparable to the Olympic final (Bolt 0.61 ahead in Lausanne vs. 0.52 ahead in Beijing).
                      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                      • #26
                        20.24

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                        • #27
                          eldrick i don't understand you...

                          Why are you limiting Martina? You Don't think that people can improve?

                          I think he is right up the there.. maybe even able to be better than most of his rivals.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RamGoat
                            Why are you limiting Martina? You Don't think that people can improve?
                            not usually by 0.5s from an established base

                            i've already given you the only 2 examples of it ever happening ( & neither of those 2 had what coud be described as an established base - they rarely ran 200s at that point in their career )

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              What is an established base? Carl Lewis had already run 200m races from age 18 onward (20,9h; 20,66; 20,73; 20,27; 19,75...). Martina? Began running 200m races from age 18 onward as well.

                              Lewis clocked 10,67; 10,21; 10,00; 10,00 and 9,97 during that same time frame. After establishing a 10,00 PB, he dropped 0,46 from his 200m best. Martina, after establishing a 9,93 PB (and his first sub-10 times), dropped his 200m best as well. No surprise.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                no

                                Lewis wasn't stuck at 20.2 for 2y prior to it & established at that level

                                his main events were 100/lj & barely dabbled at 200 prior to '83

                                he ran 6 races in '80 mostly at junior level with best of 20.66, then basically gave it up for next 2y

                                he ran 1 race in '81 ( 10.00 over 100 ) - 20.73

                                he ran 3 races in '82 - best of 20.27 in just april

                                that is no established base at a level - just a hint of potential bearing in mind 10.00

                                it was plain obvious from fact that he was the low-altitude wr holder for 100m at 10.00 a whole 2y before he ran 19.75 that with his techically poor 100m ( no discernible starting ability ) that 200m shoud be his better event - an event where the poor start was mitigated by longer distance to run - he shouda been running <20 back in '81 if he'd taken 200 more seriously, but that may have come at expense of lj training, something he likely wasn't keen on - 200m was always his 3rd event upto about '93

                                anyone ole enough to remember him at that time knew this was a waiting time-bomb ready to explode over 200 ( you clearly aren't ole enough ) when he took the event with any seriousness

                                he duly delivered in '83

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