Combined scores - A better way?

[nmzoo]

Combined Scores

Seems a little slow recently now so I will offer one of my recurring themes about scoring at NCAA National Championships, that is, combined men’s and women’s scores to determine the National Champion. This would, in my opinion, represent a more realistic picture of who actually runs the best track and field program(s) in the country.

At the recent NCAA Indoor Championships, the team placement would look as follows using the combined scores of both the men and women (men’s scores listed 1st, women 2nd):

1. Oregon (54+21 = 75 pts)
2. Texas A&M (23+37 = 60 pts)
3. LSU (29+28 = 57 pts)
4. Arizona State U (25+30 = 55 pts)
Tie Florida State U (32+23 = 55 pts)
6. Texas (22.5+31 = 53.5)
7. Florida (36+14 = 50 pts)
8. Tennessee (5+42 = 47)
9. Texas Tech U (18+21 = 39)
10. BYU (4+33 = 37)
11. Arkansas (24+11 = 35)
12. Nebraska (25+8.5 = 33.5)
13. Stanford (19+14 = 33)
14. Minnesota (15+14 = 29)
15. Penn State U (4.5+24 = 28.5)

Obviously Oregon was the runaway winner, but the most balanced teams were LSU and Minnesota with only 1 pt difference between their men and women, although LSU places much higher overall. The most unbalanced (of the top 15 teams) were BYU with their women scoring 33 pts (89%) out of a total of 37 and Tennessee with their women also scoring 89% (42 out of 47).

There were a total of 89 schools which scored pts in 2009. There were 7 schools which scored exactly 10 pts, 5 of them women’s, all coming on one champion and no other placers. There were 13 schools which scored only 1 pt. Of course there were many who didn’t score at all. The highest placing schools which have a women’s program but no men’s program was San Diego State in 34th place with 7 pts and Hawaii in 44th place with 4.5 pts.

Although I realize this is not going to happen, it doesn’t mean it would not be a better way of scoring. An unintended (and therefore unrealistic) side effect might be to encourage school which have only women to either add men (very unlikely) or at the least to upgrade men’s programs to a commensurate level with the women.

[lonewolf]

Why not score both ways, by gender and combined?

[tandfman]

Re: Combined scores - A better way?

the most balanced teams were LSU and Minnesota with only 1 pt difference between their men and women

Actually, there were quite a few teams that were even more balanced than that--neither their men nor their women scored a point.

[polevaultpower]

Why not score both ways, by gender and combined?

This is how it is done at USATF Club Nationals.

[26mi235]

Re: Combined scores - A better way?

the most balanced teams were LSU and Minnesota with only 1 pt difference between their men and women

Actually, there were quite a few teams that were even more balanced than that--neither their men nor their women scored a point.

These teams are not necessarily balanced, the men's team often scores many more times more points than the women's team, although it can be the other way around (and for the same schools!).

[jazzcyclist]

I haven't done the math, but I'm going to go out on the limb and guess that If the national team champions had been determined this way since women's track and field became an NCAA sport back in 1982, LSU would have been even more dominant during the last 25 years. Furthermore, Arkansas would have been a lot less dominant.

[Taliban]

Why not score both ways, by gender and combined?

This is how it is done at USATF Club Nationals.

Since when??


I think that Is a Horrible Idea. What happens if a school does not have a womens program? Seperate Coaches...

[Bruce Kritzler]

Re: Combined scores - A better way?

The highest placing schools which have a women’s program but no men’s program was San Diego State in 34th place with 7 pts and Hawaii in 44th place with 4.5 pts.

U.of Central Florida's women's only program finished 35th with 6pt.

[polevaultpower]

Why not score both ways, by gender and combined?

This is how it is done at USATF Club Nationals.

Since when??


I think that Is a Horrible Idea. What happens if a school does not have a womens program? Seperate Coaches...

It's Club Nationals, schools don't have anything to do with it. The meets only been around maybe 8 years or less? I think it's always been that way. I don't know if they give an award for the combined team score or if it's only for each gender. I know the prize money is only for the top 4 teams in each gender.

[Dave]

Living in Oregon and having degrees from TAMU, this method seems quite satisfactory....

If you are going to make a combined championship, I don't see an alternative to this method. However, a combined championship seems an odd idea to begin with since the men's and women's teams are essentially completely different things.

[lonewolf]

I don't see the problem. You have three championships. Men, Women and Combined, A school could win one ,two or all three. Or each could be won by a different school

[dj]

I've seen this done on the high school level with disastrous results.

A school has a strong men's team, and a so-so women's team. The senior coach gets to determine--for better or worse--the goals of the combined team. Let's call the boys' coach the senior coach.

Girl A, the star of the women's team, now is forced to go for points instead of concentrating on winning one event. The rest of the women's team is turned topsy-turvy from what it might have done in an effort to go for maximum points. And the AD is suddenly the bad guy for having to decide which coach's decisions will guide the combined team.

ADs hate the idea.