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Isi vs. Klüft For wAthlete Of Decade [rename]

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  • Isi vs. Klüft For wAthlete Of Decade [rename]

    Originally posted by jeremyp
    For women Isinbyeva is a shoo in.
    I stand by my Kluft call... She won a WJ title and Euro senior title (as a 20 yo) before Isi had won any major title... and didn't lose another one...

    But then Isinbaeva hasn't lost any champs since...

    So, Kluft gets my vote as long as she returns to win Hep in Berlin this year and Isinbaeva loses in Berlin... and if Kluft breaks JJK's WR...

    Not very convincing am I? :?

  • #2
    difficult to rate kluft until that big score in osaka ( & of course '03 wc was fantastic )

    she's only had 1 gal capable of beating her in her career - eunice ( a 7k+ gal if she stayed healthy ), but she's been on/off injured so much that we didn't see a really good match up ( '05 wasn't bad, but eunice past her peak by then at 31y ) - rest of the gals kluft's been beating up on are no better than ~ 6800 absolute max & all kluft has really needed to do to win was not foul out in lj

    i think i'd rate her more highly if she hadn't needed 4y to improve her pb

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    • #3
      Originally posted by jeremyp
      For women Isinbyeva is a shoo in. For the men I would go with Bekele, although if Bolt breaks WR's again....?
      I believe Klüft (two world juniors, two Europeans, three world champs and one Olympic gold -- all competitions without a loss in her event) has taken more victory laps outdoors :-). Isinbaeva, during the same period (2000-2008), has losses at 2002 Euros and 2003 world champs.

      By the end of this season, Bolt could be the athlete of the past 450 days. He benefits from setting the 200m WJR, but he didn't have the same effect on the senior boys, however, until 2008.

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      • #4
        to add more perspective to the debate, it woud be good to find out top-10 highest rated performances according to iaaf points on both mens/womens sides

        that woud compensate somewhat for those athletes relatively new to big stage & who have fewer golds - we are after all trying to find the "best", not just a serial gold winner ( albeit, i'm not sure what to do exactly about villi, as the poor gal will never score highly on points & she certainly is an alltime great in non-prejudiced eyes - will have to think hard about how to assess her marks )

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        • #5
          Isbin also competes in a fledgling event so exceptional and all as those WRs and victories are,. it is not the same at all as e.g.Jelimo breaking 1:53.28 over the next couple of years.

          Kluft's dominance has been fantastic, but her decision not to contest the heptathlon in Beijing may cost her. Radcliffe is way, way up there - if for the 2:15:25 alone!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by EPelle
            I believe Klüft (two world juniors, two Europeans, three world champs and one Olympic gold -- all competitions without a loss in her event) has taken more victory laps outdoors :-). Isinbaeva, during the same period (2000-2008), has losses at 2002 Euros and 2003 world champs.
            Kluft was no. 1 from 2002 until 2007, i.e. 6 consecutive seasons. Isinbayeva will match that if she's no. 1 in 2009, and it would be a major shock if she's not.
            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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            • #7
              Of course, and that is why the comparison with Isinbaeva is that Klüft has a clean record, Isinbaeva doesn't during the same decade.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EPelle
                Of course, and that is why the comparison with Isinbaeva is that Klüft has a clean record, Isinbaeva doesn't during the same decade.
                that's true, but her '02 win in ec was with a pretty paltry 6542 - such a low score shoudn't really win on the big stage

                you normally wouda expected a coupla gals to have gone 6600 there & possibly beaten her, but it was not a quality year of competitors

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EPelle
                  Of course, and that is why the comparison with Isinbaeva is that Klüft has a clean record, Isinbaeva doesn't during the same decade.
                  That's a silly basis for comparison. Jelimo also has a clean record, since she didn't compete at the global level before 2008 - so is she better than Isi?

                  The way I look at it is: by the end of 2009, Lena will likely have 6 seasons of total dominance plus 3 more seasons when she was one of the best (ranked 8th in the world in 2001, 5th in 2002, 2nd in 2003). Carro, if she doesn't compete in heptathlon this year, will have 6 seasons as no. 1 and nothing else. On this criterion, Isinbayeva is thus better.
                  Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                  • #10
                    Silly? Your introduction of Jelimo into this is just that. Isinbaeva and Klüft have been around since 2000, Jelimo hasn't. My comparison is between two similar athletes who have both competed as Juniors and as professionals in the same time frame (this entire decade).

                    Klüft has also been at/near the top in the long jump. Isinbaeva is a one-event (world) wonder.

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                    • #11
                      anyone got time/energy to look up kluft's, isi & pamela's best iaaf points score ?

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                      • #12
                        Jelimo: 1.262; Klüft: 1.298; Isinbaeva 1.277

                        IAAF point tables don't mean much to me in this respect. One may think a 2.05m high jump is fantastic (it is), but it would ONLY equal 6.776 in the hep. One would have to jump 2.09m to equal Klüft's points in the hep. Worthless comparison between the three. Jelimo would have to run 1.52,10, for example, and Isinbaeva would have to be at 5.11m in the vault.

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                        • #13
                          From the 2008 tables:

                          Carolina Kluft, Hept, 7032, 1299 pts
                          Paula Radcliffe, Marathon, 2:15:25, 1290 pts
                          Yelena Isinbaeva, PV, 5.05m, 1277 pts
                          Pamela Jelimo, 800m, 1:54.01 1263 pts

                          That gives it to Kluft and Isi would have to jump 5.12 or better to overtop Kluft's score.

                          Incidentally, Barbara Spotakova's 72.28m Javelin WR overtops all of them with 1303 pts. Does that make her the athlete of the decade?

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                          • #14
                            A 6.600 score is more in line with what should be expected of a decent medalist in a hep if one solely basis things off IAAF point tables, as it is the intended equivalent of 2.02m in the high jump, or 4.87m in the vault, or up to 7.05m in the long jump.

                            Taking things past face value is not worth it, because 1.298 for the hep is a stated IAAF equivalent of 10,44/21,16/47,25.

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                            • #15
                              2:15 is only worth that?! It just goes to show how utterly irrelevant those tables are. A marathon performance that is a few minutes faster than anyone else has ever done is worth less than a heptathlon performance that is over 200 points less than the WR. Bullsh*t.

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