When adult egos collide ...

[Speedplay]

By Dave Oberhelman

In startling news with ramifications not only for the Waubonsie Valley girls track team but also for downstate competition, all-state senior Shakeia Pinnick has left the Warriors.

Deidre Pinnick, Shakeia's mother, notified the Daily Herald on Friday that she and husband Roderick Pinnick have pulled their daughter from the squad.

Deidre Pinnick said Shakeia had been told by Warriors coach Jim Braun she would not be eligible to run at meets if she did not attend daily practice. Mrs. Pinnick said conflicts with weekly Thursday tutoring sessions made that impossible.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=285856

[Daisy]

Re: When adult egos collide ...

Should kids train like professionals? Interested to hear the take from guru and marlow.

[guru]

My instinct says those private training sessions with the club coaches are more the issue than one day a week of tutoring.

I coach at an academically exclusive school where tutoring and help nights are the norm rather than the exception. The kids just come to practice late when they are finished. Why couldn't she do the same? My guess is the parents want her with the club coach on the "tutoring" day(s), and the school coach balked. I would too.

[dukehjsteve]

It's easy to slam on teachers ( Marlow stay calm) but this is nothing new.

I had a good friend whose daughter was a quite good sprinter, a junior in high school. She also played in the Band. On an upcoming Saturday, there was a big Band Contest, and also a big Track Meet, in direct time conflicts.

Band Leader: You either come to the Band Contest or I will kick you out of the Band with a grade of F.

Track Coach: You either come to the Track Meet or I will kick you off the team.


My friend took the whole issue direct to the Principal, and some sort of imperfect solution was enacted, but both the Track Coach and Band Leader insisted that their positions were correct. Pathetic.

[tandfman]

There are very often honest differences of opinion about coaching, training, and competition objectives, with the high school coach on one side and the youth club coach (AAU or USATF) on the other. I suspect it's not always a question of egos, although I'm sure it sometimes is.

[guru]

There are very often honest differences of opinion about coaching, training, and competition objectives, with the high school coach on one side and the youth club coach (AAU or USATF) on the other. I suspect it's not always a question of egos, although I'm sure it sometimes is.

It's a simple enough thing - during the school season, if you want to run for the school your coach is the school coach. During the summer, or in some cases indoor, you can run for the club. The problem is many times, and this is certainly not exclusive to track, the club coaches have boundary issues.

[Marlow]

I'm not a big fan of the my-way-or-the-highway approach to coaching. EVERTHING should be negotiable for the benefit of the CHILD, while still recognizing the need to conform to a socially acceptable structure. This sort of thing happens EVERY year on my team of 100. Soccer, volleyball, swimming and all sorts of ECAs get in the way of track. So I deal with it, and I make sure they don't quit because of some obstacle I have put in their way (parents and other coaches do more than their share of that). I have NEVER had a problem with a club track coach. We always work together FOR the child. If I have an event specialist who can devote more time and energy than I can to an individual athlete, they go to them with my blessing. Parents, however, should NEVER be driving the bus (metaphorically). They are too wrapped up in their baby to see ANY greater good.

Perhaps it's my TOEdom, but the answer to ALL problems like this is early, open communication. It has ALWAYS worked for me.

[gh]

Since you're so fond of strident caps, I have a bit of a fear for the CHILD was soon as the acronym AAU enters the equation. Not to tar everybody with the same brush, but I increasingly get the feeling--admittedly from afar--that much of the AAU's operation has been subverted by FOR-PROFIT coaches who see KIDS as their stepping stone either to an improved job or some hard CASH.

ps--edited to note that my "anti AAU" feelings come mostly from what's happening in the basketball world, not track.

[Cyril]

The team vs. individual aspect of high school track is interesting.

My son has put in base, trained like an 800 m. kid because he wants to run the 800. Unfortunately, his team has plenty of distance kids who can step down to earn points at the 8. However, they are short on sprinters and 400 kids. So, for the benefit of the team, my son has run the 2/4 all season. He hasn't yet had the opportunity to run one 800 - the race he really wants to run. Fortunately my son is a team player and doesn't mind the sacrifice (even though it is a bit frustrating as his ability is greater in the 8).

Other kids are also asked to sacrifice their personal interests for the team. Kids often triple or quadruple to help the team win duel meets. It is usually the kids with the most ability that are asked to make the most sacrifice as only about 10% of the team actually scores points and, to be successful, coaches must get the most out of that 10%.

What may be in the best interest of the kid, or may encourage the kid to continue to participate in the sport into college, is often in conflict with what is in the best interest of the team - and in high school track, on competitive teams - the team comes first. I suppose this is the same in all sports.

[Marlow]

ps--edited to note that my "anti AAU" feelings come mostly from what's happening in the basketball world, not track.

Anyone who gets into club coaching for the money needs to buy some S. Fla real estate from me. It just isn't there in track.

[high knees]

Lol....yeah, no money in TRACK club coaching, but big money in AAU B-Ball (as to what gh was referring to). I tend to fall on the side of the club coach,/parent/athlete, especially if the kid was/is a stud(ette) like Pinnick is. They have trained the athlete to get in the position that they are in and then a H.S. coach comes in in for 3 months. and wants the kid to do a million events (that are not always compatible with their events) for the "team" and often times disputes the training philosophies of the club coach who the kid has a year round relationship with. If it's an average kid, no problem, do the H.S. scene, have a blast. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it............at the end of the day, the school gets the credit (and the points) anyway..........

[lonewolf]

My mid-20th century, rural Oklahoma HS, (enrollment 80, 21 in my senior class,) did not have a band/track conflict. The band director was the track coach. He was also the baseball coach, basketball coach, taught history and drove a school bus...
Apropo of nothing, he was an old guy, probably near 30, WWII vet fresh out of college on the GI Bill... with a 22 year old blond wife who taught typing and was so gorgeous she made your teeth hurt...every boy in school took typing.

Nearly every boy in school was in the band, ran track and played baseball and basketball. We did not play football because school recessed in Oct-Nov for cotton harvest or I am sure we would all have played football too.

One of our legendary all-sports studs, a WWII vet , grad class of 1947, actually played college football, never having played in HS, and had a successful 40 year football coaching career in western Oklahoma.

He also played basketball and baseball in college and had a cup of coffee in the major leagues as a pitcher. His father was MLB pitcher in the twenties so he had the genes. I don't think he ran track in college. He was about 6-0, 200 #, ran 10.00, 50'SP.
This sports renaissance man also drove a school bus but was not in the band.

[gh]

ps--edited to note that my "anti AAU" feelings come mostly from what's happening in the basketball world, not track.

Anyone who gets into club coaching for the money needs to buy some S. Fla real estate from me. It just isn't there in track.

Sorry Pollyanna, but there is definitely (significant) money there if you can move up in the coaching ranks, or get a finder's fee from a college, or get a finder's fee from a sponsor or get a finder's fee from agent for down the road.

[Gleason]

The team vs. individual aspect of high school track is interesting.

My son has put in base, trained like an 800 m. kid because he wants to run the 800. Unfortunately, his team has plenty of distance kids who can step down to earn points at the 8. However, they are short on sprinters and 400 kids. So, for the benefit of the team, my son has run the 2/4 all season. He hasn't yet had the opportunity to run one 800 - the race he really wants to run. Fortunately my son is a team player and doesn't mind the sacrifice (even though it is a bit frustrating as his ability is greater in the 8).

Other kids are also asked to sacrifice their personal interests for the team. Kids often triple or quadruple to help the team win duel meets. It is usually the kids with the most ability that are asked to make the most sacrifice as only about 10% of the team actually scores points and, to be successful, coaches must get the most out of that 10%.

What may be in the best interest of the kid, or may encourage the kid to continue to participate in the sport into college, is often in conflict with what is in the best interest of the team - and in high school track, on competitive teams - the team comes first. I suppose this is the same in all sports.

I'm sure that the above is accurate, but I coached a 9:25 2-miler & a 4:24 miler (and a girl 11:10 2-miler) who enjoyed running 880/440 in high school dual meets in the 1970s. They ran their best events in invitationals, then were ready for league and the difficult qualifying process for state in southern California. This situation may be best for the 800 runner because 400/200 in dual meets is good preparation for championship meets.

I found dual meet results for Tom Lile who still holds the school 880/800 record of 1:53.8 set in 1959 where I used to coach. He ran 100/220/"broad" jump/880 relay in dual meets. IF Cyril's son can run one 800 before league, he may be surprised to learn that he is ready for the big time. High school athletes who do well frequently have a sharp upward learning curve. Good luck.

[Cooter Brown]

Anyone who gets into club coaching for the money needs to buy some S. Fla real estate from me. It just isn't there in track.

All the indoor PV facilities going up aren't getting paid for with funny money.

Most of these PV clubs have over 20 full time members paying $200+ a month and dozens of single session users per week paying $20-50 a session.

Throw in a few camps a year and equipment sales and the money's not terrible. Granted, it's not stellar lawdude money but definitely better than most high school & college coaching positions.