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  • Lionel Larry vs Dwain Chambers

    Larry vs Chambers in a 200m is a good example of what happens when a guy with 400m speed endurance meets up with a 60/100 man in a 200m. Yes I know it's early and all that but it's still a good example because it's early for both of them.

    Larry has ran the 200m, he was a Cal State 200m in high school, he however doesn't run the 100m or hasn't since high school (that I know of). As we know Chambers ran a blazin' 60 not so long ago, so he has speed. We also know he's not a 400m man.

    So there it was the long sprinter in Larry vs the short sprinter in Chambers hooking up in a 200m. Advantage-long sprinter! Despite his obvious speed advantage Chambers didn't have that....speed reserve/speed endurance...to deal with a guy who did. This has been a common occurance as far back as I can remember. Only the names change.

    Dwain Chambers would destroy Lionel Larry in a 60/100. Larry would easily win a 400m. So in the 200m who wins? Yep...the guy with the superior.....speed endurance.

    Ok, I'm done arguing this. I can't say anymore than I already have about this, I just wanted this example to not be ignored. As the season progresses watch how this plays out.

    The latest T&FN lists high schooler Quincy McDuffie as a 21.27/47.01 guy. He is second on both lists. He's the only sprinter mentioned on two lists from the three sprints. Then there's hurdler Reggie Wyatt who leads the nation in the 400m (when the mag was published) with his 46.67. Who here thinks he'd run a superior 100m over a 200m? Here in the San Joaquin Valley in Cali, the top dawg in the 200 is Central's Brendan Bigelow (took second in the state 200 in 2008) he is second in the 400m. The greatest 200m man ever from this neck of the (Fresno to Bakersfield and all points in between) woods....Tommie Smith (Lemoore) was also the greatest 400m man.

    Just something I picked up on over the years. I remember when Kenteris won his Olympic/World titles thinking...."I bet he ran the 400m"....because of how he came on in the latter stages of the 200m while everyone else was fading. I 'd never heard of the guy before 2000. I wasn't surprised to find out that sure enought....45.6. Now that will bring a..."a 45.6 is real 400m prowess?"...it's that over distance training I'm actually talking about. He spent years buiiding 400m endurance, so what's a 200m to a guy who run's a 400m? Answer....not much!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

    I got curious...

    Tavaris Tate currently leads the nation (HS) in the 200m-20.89. He is right behind Wyatt in the 400m-46.79.

    Once again let's see how this plays out in 2009. I already know how it's played out since around 1959.

  • #2
    Alas, Texas, who wins at 150m? 8-)

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    • #3
      Usain Bolt is the Olympic 100m champion.

      Put him up against Lionel Larry. (Or LaShaWn MerRitt) :roll:

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      • #4
        Originally posted by EPelle
        Alas, Texas, who wins at 150m? 8-)
        Until we start seeing the 150 as an Olympic/NCAA event , who cares?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by pherekydes
          Usain Bolt is the Olympic 100m champion.

          Put him up against Lionel Larry. (Or LaShaWn MerRitt) :roll:
          Let's also put Bolt up against...

          Asafa Powell
          Tyson Gay
          Shawn Crawford
          Carl Lewis
          Donovan Bailey
          Joe DeLoach
          Frankie Fredericks
          Ato Boldon
          Bob Hayes
          Leroy Burrell
          Valery Borzov
          Justin Gatlin
          Bruny Surin

          ...in a 400m.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Texas
            Originally posted by EPelle
            Alas, Texas, who wins at 150m? 8-)
            Until we start seeing the 150 as an Olympic/NCAA event , who cares?
            When does that strength sprinter have the advantage over the speed sprinter was the read-between-the-lines question.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by EPelle
              Originally posted by Texas
              Originally posted by EPelle
              Alas, Texas, who wins at 150m? 8-)
              Until we start seeing the 150 as an Olympic/NCAA event , who cares?
              When does that strength sprinter have the advantage over the speed sprinter was the read-between-the-lines question.
              There is no precise anything here. Like I've said before "speed comes in many guises". Go over to youtube and check out....

              Kenteris winning the Olympics/Worlds
              Bryshon Nellum running down 100m champ Javid Best in his Cali State 200m win.
              Pietro Mennea running down 100m champ Allan Wells in his Oly 200m win.
              Tommie Smith running down Carlos in his Oly 200m win.

              It appears that guys who don't run the 400m start fading at around that 150 or so mark, a place where a guy who can cook a solid 400m is still holding the speed, or a larger % of it. There is a reason we saw all those examples listed above. The guy with the superior "speed endurance" ruling.

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              • #8
                I agree with you on the speed-endurance aspect of it; we once disagreed a couple of years back. You also answered the question about nearly where during a sprint that the guy lacking 400m endurance will begin losing to a guy who may be slower at the shorter distance, but who possesses that strength.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by EPelle
                  I agree with you on the speed-endurance aspect of it; we once disagreed a couple of years back. You also answered the question about nearly where during a sprint that the guy lacking 400m endurance will begin losing to a guy who may be slower at the shorter distance, but who possesses that strength.
                  Let's take any confrontation between a short sprinter vs a long sprinter in a 200m.

                  Bob Hayes would beat Henry Carr in the 60/100. Carr would win the 400. Who was the Olympic 200m Champ/WR holder? Yes Hayes held the record until Carr broke it.

                  Jimmy Hines would beat Tommie Smith in a 60/100m. Smith would win a 400m. Who held the 200m WR and won Oly gold?

                  We can do that with Mennea over Wells? Regis (GB record) vs Christie. MJ vs Fredericks and Boldon. While we can't do that with Bolt vs the competition his 45.2ish tells us he has 400m ability. As we all know he grew up running the 400/200..not the 100m. So by the time he finally got to the 100m he had more speed endurance than guys who were 100m sprinters.

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                  • #10
                    Tyson Gay would beat Xavier Carter and Wallace Spearmon in the 60/100. Carter and Spearmon would win the 400. Being long sprinters, they'd also take the 200m. Oh, wait, no they wouldn't.

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                    • #11
                      Walter Dix, Olympic 100m bronze medallist. LaShawn Merritt, Olympic 400m gold medallist. So is it Merritt all the way over 200m?

                      Remember, you said to take any example.

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                      • #12
                        Picture the scene in Seoul 1988. The Americans Joe DeLoach and Carl Lewis, with their 100m speed, face Robson da Silva from Brazil, a 10.00 / 45.06 guy. da Silva burns them down the home straight with that incredible speed endurance and takes the gold medal, right?

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                        • #13
                          You keep using the example of Atlanta 1996.

                          I'm glad you do. Obadele Thompson, with his sub 10 speed and his 45.38 400m ability, must have been a sure fire bet to beat Fredericks and Boldon for the silver medal, right?

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                          • #14
                            Part of Dix's background is in running 4x400m at the university level (ACC and NCAA).

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                            • #15
                              You use the example of Pietro Mennea using his 400m ability to beat Allan Wells.

                              Why don't you use the example of Pietro Mennea using his 400m ability to lose to Valeriy Borzov, Don Quarrie and Carl Lewis in the three other Olympic finals he contested?

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