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Jelmini =HSR in discus, now HSR plus #2 shot

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Marlow
    Originally posted by Half Miler
    Originally posted by balzonia
    Additionally, the Shot and Discus are... as similar as the Long Jump and the High Jump.
    :!:
    I appreciate the difference between the SP/DT and HJ/LJ, but you'll find many more SP/DT combos than you will HJ/LJ. It's more akin to LJ/TJ. Scan the HS and college results and you'll often see the same names on the leaderboard of the SP/DT and LJ/TJ, but far fewer on the HJ/LJ.
    I get what you are saying... And I thought about that, too. But honestly, there are many more similarities between LJ/TJ than SP/DT.

    SP/DT might have slightly more in common than LJ/HJ but not by much. And that assumes the SP'er spins (which Jelmini does)

    The abundance of SP/DT doublers on various lists comes from the fact that they are the only 2 throwing events contested in HS in most states. In colleges it is almost impossible for a thrower to specialize. All SP'ers are expected to throw discus (and often hammer) and vice versa. If a thrower is elite in one event, they are usually at least solid in another throw. Just like any 7'5" Hj'er could likely LJ 24' and be ranked on multiple lists

    I hope that makes sense :lol:

    I think we could argue nuance here for quite some time and never come to an agreement, but I appreciate your point of view.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by balzonia
      The abundance of SP/DT doublers on various lists comes from the fact that they are the only 2 throwing events contested in HS in most states. In colleges it is almost impossible for a thrower to specialize.
      Dunno about colleges, but in the last 4 years Rutger Smith won WCh medals in both SP and DT.
      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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      • #48
        Originally posted by balzonia
        FYI... HS women throw the exact same implement as international and collegiate female athletes... the list I see here:
        http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/lis...id=W&year=2008
        puts Jelmini as the #10 DT in the senior division with 6'4 and 50.6 also 10th...
        My bad about the weight of the Discus. However it still would have put her #64 World wide in the event, while the 50.6 and 6'4 would have been top ten in World. So, again, a mark that is #10 in world beats out a mark that is #64th What is hard to understand about this.

        I don't know on what list you see 50.6 and 6'4 as 10th and 58m (190'4") as 45th. I guess my gut feeling was dead on! I love it when that happens...
        Don't get too cocky too soon! The lists I refer too are the TF/IAAF world lists for seniors. I count 64 athletes with a better mark than 57.98.

        I completely agree the intrinsic mark is what matters. That is why I have no idea why you would opine that:
        "Having two top ATB in events that the US is traditionallly weak in hardly counts."
        Since one of her marks would have put her as #64 in world last year, while HS records 6'4/50.6 would have been ranked #10, having a HSR by itself is not comparable to the marks intrinsic worth. You consider a mark based on it being a Record, I base it on it's value vis a vis other marks.

        You demeaned Jelmini's marks by saying they "hardly count." Another patronizing comment that clearly illustrates a lack of appreciation for the magnitude of these performances likely due to ignorance of the events contested. Fair enough...
        Stop being pompous. The issue you raised the flag on (hyperbolically as gh said) was: "Is she the greatest T&F athlete in US high school history? I think she might be... " merits a "hardly counts" when best of said marks was #64th in world last year, and at least 2 of HSR's would have ranked 10th last year. I am not demeaning her performance, I am simply putting it in it's place: Good, not great.

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        • #49
          I am not demeaning her performance, I am simply putting it in it's place: Good, not great.
          Wow.

          :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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          • #50
            You consider a mark based on it being a Record, I base it on it's value vis a vis other marks.

            The issue you raised the flag on (hyperbolically as gh said) was: "Is she the greatest T&F athlete in US high school history? I think she might be... " merits a "hardly counts" when best of said marks was #64th in world last year, and at least 2 of HSR's would have ranked 10th last year. I am not demeaning her performance, I am simply putting it in it's place: Good, not great.
            Following your logic, Jordan Hasay must suck... she didn't even crack the IAAF list at over 140 athletes deep who ran faster than her 4:14 in the 1500... She may not even be in the top 150.

            Poor girl... She might as well quit...

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            • #51
              By the way, tc, you were correct with your Jesse Bradford answer. 18.5 was his mark. He ran a year at Bakersfield JC and nothing thereafter, to my knowledge.

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