The Rabbit

[Marlow]

I see an article on the home-page about pace-setters. First of all, we are all 'bloggers' here, so his opinion has exactly the same authority as mine or yours (next to nil), but even considering that, I find this excerpt particularly worthless:

“Do we need them?,” said one IAAF source. “The rules allow them but don’t encourage them. Is pacemaking old-fashioned?” Informal discussions with those close to the sport suggest it is. A constant thirst for world records contributed to the cult of pacemakers. The downside has been the drugs culture which has blighted the sport in the endless quest to become faster and stronger. Any measures which promote genuine contests instead of paced world records are to be applauded.

Trying to link rabbits to the drug culture is risible in the extreme. Athletes do PEDs to enhance their competitiveness and subsequently their marketability. It has nothing to do with the 'need' for pacers in distance events. We've already had all the rabbit threads we need here. I believe they enhance a meet; others, gh notably, think they 'ruin' the 'racing'. I have no problem with whatever side one is on in the debate, but I do object to patently false logic like the above.

[EPelle]

I read it as being the constant thirst for world records - not the rabbits - which caused the author to mention the part you underlined. There was a thirst for world records and a quest to achieve them.

[Marlow]

I read it as being the constant thirst for world records - not the rabbits - which caused the author to mention the part you underlined. There was a thirst for world records and a quest to achieve them.

Reading the last sentence, his implication is clear: rabbiting encourages PEDs - preposterous.

[EPelle]

?? I am not seeing that.

His last sentence reads, "Any measures which promote genuine contests instead of paced world records are to be applauded."

Those measures, as I read it, are rabbit-less races.

The PED reference was tacked on a sentence speaking of old-fashionism in the sport and the effects rabbits have had on the sport as well. The thirst for world records, according to the author, contributed this overwhelming need athletes have of pacemakers. One can deduce from experience that pace-making isn't what makes each and every athlete fast, rather the pursuit of drugs by a few to keep up with the faster paces being laid down is how I would view that.

Drugs, I believe, were mentioned to tell the audience that some athletes are pursuing measures to become faster and stronger. This is the only time in the entire article he mentioned drugs, and I don't see a direct correlation between PED's and rabbits. He concluded by stating we should applaud measures (rabbit-less races) which promote the spirit of competition rather than the pursuit of records, in so many words.

[Marlow]

?? I am not seeing that.

His points enumerated:

1. A constant thirst for world records contributed to the cult of pacemakers.
2. The downside has been the drugs culture which has blighted the sport in the endless quest to become faster and stronger.
3. Any measures which promote genuine contests instead of paced world records are to be applauded.

He was attempting a syllogism (he didn't achieve it, but that was his intent).

1. rabbits were created to help set records (true)
2. the desire to set records has led to PEDs (appears to be true, but isn't (see below)).
3. getting rid of rabbits will preclude the quest for records, which will help render PEDs unnecessary (false)

Regardless of the quest for records, people will take PEDs to be the best, with the accompanying fame and $$$
Getting rid of rabbits will not diminish the desire for PEDs one iota. WINNING is still the primary aim and PEDs help you win.

It is a logical fallacy to try and connect PEDs and rabbits, which he most certainly IS trying to do.

[EPelle]

He'd be better served to make an obvious connection then, no? He's been assertive with other points, why the sudden duck and hide behind the last one?

[TrackDaddy]

Re: The Rabbit

I see an article on the home-page about pace-setters. First of all, we are all 'bloggers' here, so his opinion has exactly the same authority as mine or yours (next to nil),

Actually, my opinion is quite significant and intensely authoritative (as long as gh agrees ).

[EPelle]

He was attempting a syllogism (he didn't achieve it, but that was his intent).

1. rabbits were created to help set records (true)
2. the desire to set records has led to PEDs (appears to be true, but isn't (see below)).
3. getting rid of rabbits will preclude the quest for records, which will help render PEDs unnecessary (false)

Sure seems to read:

1. The way things were then is better than they are today.
2. Rabbits have caused the sport to change from head-on racing to record-chasing.
3. Reduce and/or eliminate the rabbits, and the nostalgia of true racing returns.

At worse, he may have mentioned PED's to take a cheap-shot.

[gh]

Re: The Rabbit

I see an article on the home-page about pace-setters. First of all, we are all 'bloggers' here, so his opinion has exactly the same authority as mine or yours .......

Don't be ridiculous. Mehaffey is an international track journalist with a couple of decades standing and is paid (one would assume well) by Reuters for his expertise. To say your opinion/analysis counts as much as his is the same kind of conceit as your saying "we're all pole vault coaches; my opinion counts as much as Vitaliy Petrov's."

[Marlow]

Re: The Rabbit

I see an article on the home-page about pace-setters. First of all, we are all 'bloggers' here, so his opinion has exactly the same authority as mine or yours .......

Don't be ridiculous. Mehaffey is an international track journalist with a couple of decades standing and is paid (one would assume well) by Reuters for his expertise. To say your opinion/analysis counts as much as his is the same kind of conceit as your saying "we're all pole vault coaches; my opinion counts as much as Vitaliy Petrov's."

I would NEVER say my opinion counts as much as Petrov's in the PV. I would say that my opinion and many other long-time fanatics of T&F ARE just as valuable as this columnist's on this subject. Being a journalist, even focusing on this particular sport, does not give one mystical powers of insight, as proven by this column. I would posit that you, gh, have MUCH more knowledge and insight into this sport than ANYONE (Hersh and Johnson also, among others) and look how often you are wrong!! :twisted:

[gh]

Sorry, I had forgotten there was no realm of human endeavor in which you werent' an expert.

[Marlow]

Sorry, I had forgotten there was no realm of human endeavor in which you werent' an expert.

You are forgiven, for you know not what you do . . . :shock:

I realize it is a favorite pastime of yours to belittle me, but my opinion in this matter is JUST as valid as his, and you and I could name a dozens of other names off the top of our heads, who would have an equally valid or superior take on this.

An sadly no, I am not an 'expert' on much of anything, but I sure have diverse interests that compel me to gain as much knowledge on them as I can. I share that trait with MANY posters here, yourself included.

[gh]

Stop being a pompous ass.

[kuha]

I read it as being the constant thirst for world records - not the rabbits - which caused the author to mention the part you underlined. There was a thirst for world records and a quest to achieve them.

We've debated this before, but I truly don't believe that "world records" are the real goal here, given how rarely they are set. The larger point is the quest for fast times--which both crowds and meet directors tend to like...

[gh]

... and the athletes like too.

But I would say they end up happy only when successful, and the vast majority of the time, at least in the record sense, people go away having been disappointed, whereas a hard-fought race to the finish is always a source of pleasure.