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  • #16
    It pains me to say so, but I agree with Marlow. There is no link between PED use and rabbited races - that is a ludicrous assertion.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by kuha
      Originally posted by EPelle
      I read it as being the constant thirst for world records - not the rabbits - which caused the author to mention the part you underlined. There was a thirst for world records and a quest to achieve them.
      We've debated this before, but I truly don't believe that "world records" are the real goal here, given how rarely they are set. The larger point is the quest for fast times--which both crowds and meet directors tend to like...
      I agree 100% with you (see my previous Stanford qualm). What you quoted was my take on what the author was stating.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bad hammy
        It pains me to say so, but I agree with Marlow. There is no link between PED use and rabbited races - that is a ludicrous assertion.
        :?

        :lol:
        The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

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        • #19
          Originally posted by gh
          Stop being a pompous ass.
          Perfect example of how to act/post ??

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          • #20
            Like Charles Barkley, I'm not here as your role model.

            But this isn't about me. This is about trashing a whole profession as if it's nothing. Would you dream of walking into Marlow's classroom and telling the class that everything he said doesn't really mean anything; you walked in off the street and you can do his job as well as he?"

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by bad hammy
              It pains me to say so, but I agree with Marlow. There is no link between PED use and rabbited races - that is a ludicrous assertion.
              I am not seeing that. Please help me identify that assertion in the following sentence structure:

              A constant thirst for world records contributed to the cult of pacemakers. The downside has been the drugs culture which has blighted the sport in the endless quest to become faster and stronger.
              • Constant thirst = setting world records. [/*:m:23df1k3n]
              • Effect (of having that constant thirst) = "cult" of pacemakers. The pacemakers arrived on scene due solely to the constant thirst of setting world-records, according to the author. [/*:m:23df1k3n]
              • Downside (of that constant thirst, which is tied to setting world records - some of which are aided by rabbits) = drugs culture.[/*:m:23df1k3n]

              Endless quest to become faster could be tied to pace-making, but following rabbits doesn't make you stronger. I don't believe the author is attempting to tie in pace-making and performance-enhancing drugs. To me (and, perhaps I alone), he is solidifying a point he made earlier, namely that rabbits are not encouraged to run, but using them is not disallowed. This started off with discussion he had about the London Marathon in particular, and how neither Boston nor New York allow pace-makers. In context, Wanjiru stated that he would have had the pace-makers drop off at 35km into the 42,2km race. The author sounds a bit nostalgic in hoping that pace-making would exit stage left and real racing would commence.

              There is one single mention of PED's.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by gh
                But this isn't about me. This is about trashing a whole profession as if it's nothing. Would you dream of walking into Marlow's classroom and telling the class that everything he said doesn't really mean anything; you walked in off the street and you can do his job as well as he?"
                In rhetorical terms, I would have to characterize that as a willful misreading of my post. Also . . . I actually do teach my students to challenge everything I say.

                Comment


                • #23
                  What's most interesting about a journalist is not what he publishes, but what he doesn't publish due to lack of proof or legal action (actual or possible risk of).

                  Without wanting to sound like MattMarriott, I'm quite sure there's plenty of shenanigans that go on at the top level (athletes as well) that don't reach the ears of your average track fan, coach or official but a journalist knows about and doesn't report. There are some journos I would dearly love to slip some sodium pentathol. Or in the absence of that, get them blind drunk on whisky! :lol:

                  Mehaffey may well know more than you think! Although he may not be an expert on just how perfectly Ms Dragila drifts over the bar ...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    I would have to characterize that as a willful misreading of my post.
                    While you're probably right about the thingy between you and gh, in this case the misreading (of the article) is your own.

                    Seriously...Mehaffey is saying the downside of world record chasing has been drugs, NOT the downside of having rabbits.

                    "A constant thirst for world records contributed to the cult of pacemakers. The downside has been the drugs culture."


                    :roll:

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Half Miler
                      "A constant thirst for world records contributed to the cult of pacemakers. The downside has been the drugs culture."
                      Taking those two statements out of the larger context does not diminish his attempt to throw those cute little furry bunnies under the PEDs Bus. Rabbits are the topic of the article. Bringing up PEDs in this context is a clear attempt to smear them with the PEDs issue.

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                      • #26
                        Marlow, how can he attribute drugs+rabbits to becoming stronger as this sentence is supposedly suggesting?

                        The downside has been the drugs culture which has blighted the sport in the endless quest to become faster and stronger

                        Follow rabbit to run faster. Ok. Follow rabbit to become stronger? No. Chasing world records - the pursuit - is what appears to be the target here. A very few athletes are turning to drugs (since the majority aren't part of this, these people must really be a sub-culture), and their quest to become faster and stronger by method of drugs-use is blighting the sport. Again, they are not getting stronger by chasing rabbits.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by EPelle
                          they are not getting stronger by chasing rabbits.
                          I get what you're saying but bio-mechanical theory actually does say that running at paces above your comfort level makes you 'stronger', in the broad sense of running strength. If you want to break 4 minutes, going out at 4-min pace, even if you die in the last quarter, will benefit you (but not your competitive placing). The body tries to adapt to this new stress by making it 'easier' to maintain the demanded pace. This is, of course, not a great way to regularly train, but there are athletes who have successfully followed this course.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Marlow
                            Originally posted by EPelle
                            they are not getting stronger by chasing rabbits.
                            I get what you're saying but bio-mechanical theory actually does say that running at paces above your comfort level makes you 'stronger', in the broad sense of running strength. If you want to break 4 minutes, going out at 4-min pace, even if you die in the last quarter, will benefit you (but not your competitive placing). The body tries to adapt to this new stress by making it 'easier' to maintain the demanded pace. This is, of course, not a great way to regularly train, but there are athletes who have successfully followed this course.
                            Isn't this getting off topic? I thought the guy was talking about races not training.

                            Originally posted by Marlow
                            Originally posted by Half Miler
                            "A constant thirst for world records contributed to the cult of pacemakers. The downside has been the drugs culture."
                            Taking those two statements out of the larger context does not diminish his attempt to throw those cute little furry bunnies under the PEDs Bus. Rabbits are the topic of the article. Bringing up PEDs in this context is a clear attempt to smear them with the PEDs issue.
                            Is he not just writing in a big picture way? You would agree that the cult of faster includes both rabbiting and PED's?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I appreciate your last comment, and have actually trained faster than I could race.

                              However, you have concluded that it would not being a great way to train, whereas the author is speaking specifically about rabbits - the kinds athletes follow in races.

                              Most non-doped athletes, the majority who are not part of that sub-culture (which has mistakenly been named a culture) mentioned, aren't using races to follow rabbits to gain strength, and, ultimately to use that strength in other rabbitted races to run faster (chase world records). How many times in the past year alone have folks on this very board lamented how rabbits ran too far of the actual competition - or how the competitors let the rabbits simply run on? The pursuit of the world-record isn't being made by those who need to gain strength following rabbits, though (following a rabbit and) running at a rate faster than you have previously should be something the body eventually gets used to.

                              Those who are pursuing the rabbits already have the strength.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Daisy
                                Isn't this getting off topic?
                                Yes

                                Originally posted by Daisy
                                You would agree that the cult of faster includes both rabbiting and PED's?
                                Yes, but we're talking about a perceived link: Rabbits need to go because they are 'connected' to PEDs.

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