1500/5000/10,000 Combo Distance Runners

[dd1288]

Aaron Braun continues to impress at the D2 level: http://d2cross.blogspot.com/

[Zat0pek]

I think a more useful ranking would be to evaluate the performances in the context of their era.

To do that I would look at (1) where the performance was on the yearly world list the year it happened and (2) where it was on the all-time world list at the time it happened.

For example, Zatopek wouldn't be on the radar using only raw performances, but his 5,000/10,000/marathon performances topped the lists and would put him at the head of the line under this criteria. Webb and Aouita share very comparable PRs 800 through 10,000. Does anybody really want to argue that Webb is as "great" than Aouita? No. Many of Aouita's PRs were WRs, something Webb isn't even very close to. Was Roger Bannister really only the equivalent of merely a very good college runner?

It's sort of like comparing say, Webb and Ryun (not trying to hijack this in to a Webb thread, honest). Yes, Webb broke Ryun's HS mile record. But Ryun's 3:55 was the AR and he defeated the reigning WR holder in the process. To equal that feat, Webb would have had to run 3:47.68 or faster AND have beaten El G in the same race.

Under my system, a perfect score would be six for three events. Geb, for example would have a perfect score at 5,000 (1,1)/10,000 (1,1)/marathon (1,1). Adding his rankings on the yearly and all-time world lists yields a total of six.

[Powell]

no one has held the 100/200 and 400, right?

Irena Szewinska did, but not all at the same time.

WOW thanx Powell!

Also, at one point Marita Koch was simlultaneously the WR holder at 60 and 400 meters. She never set a record at 100, but she finished just 0.02 behind Marlies Goehr's 10.81 WR.

[Mighty Favog]

When I first started reading T&FN in the mid-'60s everything was scored on the Portuguese Tables. They were first published in '49 and there was a '62 update.

Their usefulness ended with technological advances like synthetic tracks, auto timing, fiberglass poles and the flop (to say nothing of roids), all of which sent various events off on different tangents.

For some numerical rankings I do, I've come up with my own points table. I base it completely off the best marks of the last ten years (after removing marks made by athletes hit with major doping bans or who admitted use).

In the sprints, I use JRM's online wind/altitude correctors to adjust the data. I use crude wrangling of his 100m corrector to adjust hurdle, LJ and TJ marks as well. Road times are corrected using Ken Young's Race-Time Bias adjustments (which, by the way, show Wanjiru's Beijing victory as the greatest marathon performance of all time).

My points table goes from 1 to 50. Here are 50 pt and 1 pt performances for selected events:
MEN
100m: 9.55 / 10.23
1500m: 3:21.21 / 3:37.53
Steeple: 7:38.71 / 8:24.92
Marathon: 2:03:14 / 2:09:46
400H: 46.49 / 48.90
PV: 6.19 / 5.74
SP: 23.26 / 20.77

WOMEN
200m: 21.57 / 22.76
800m: 1:52.21 / 2:00.38
5000m: 13:47.26 / 15:16.05
100H: 12.25 / 12.69
HJ: 2.12 / 1.96
DT: 71.82 / 62.43

The system reflects changing trends in each event because it has a memory of only ten years and weights recent years more heavily. Whether it's due to greater doping control (women's sprints) or an unexplained dropoff in performance (men's LJ) doesn't matter, it jsut judges athletes by recent trends.

According to my system, the men's performances of the year are Sebastian Bayer's Euro win (indoors), Duncan Kibet and James Kwambai's Rotterdam photofinish (road), and Gerd Kanter's Chula Vista biggie (outdoor, so far). The women's POY are Isinabyeva's PV WR (indoor), Olga Kanaskina's win at the Russina Winter walks (road), and Valerie Vili's Waikatere win (outdoor, so far).

[SQUACKEE]

no one has held the 100/200 and 400, right?

Irena Szewinska did, but not all at the same time.

WOW thanx Powell!

[Powell]

no one has held the 100/200 and 400, right?

Irena Szewinska did, but not all at the same time.

[SQUACKEE]

If Bolt runs the 400 someday as fast has i think he is capable of he would be the King of all times. 100-200-400 may be more impressive than 5000/1500,10000 and 26er range? What da ya think?

Geb has already held, at one point, the worlds record for the 5 and 10 and 26er but no one has held the 100/200 and 400, right?

[Brettboy]

The greater issue is not what distances are used, but whether the points
awarded are fair: As has been discussed on many threads here, the point tables
are too crude a tool by far to give more than approximate results.

Without going through the leg-work, I suspect that there are some even higher
women's scores, when looking at arbitrary events: Koch, Krato, Flo-Jo (at least
with her 400r), Drechsler, JJK?

JJK get's her highest score from her heptathlon, Long Jump and 200m...5 points higher than if she used her 100mh:

7.49 = 1312
7,291 = 1350
22.30 = 1207
Total = 3869

Drechsler rather surprisingly get's her top score from the same 3 events, rather than 100/200/LJ as you'd expect:

7.48 = 1309
21.71 = 1254
6,741 = 1241
Total = 3804
Her 10.91 100m equates to 1213. If this were a heptathlon her 7.63 (2.1) LJ would count, meaning she'd get another 81 pts, total 3885.

The shock is Koch, who doesnt get over 3,800 pts:
10.83 = 1227
21.71 = 1254
47.60 = 1286
Total = 3767
That 400m score is way too low IMO

[gh]

When I first started reading T&FN in the mid-'60s everything was scored on the Portuguese Tables. They were first published in '49 and there was a '62 update.

Their usefulness ended with technological advances like synthetic tracks, auto timing, fiberglass poles and the flop (to say nothing of roids), all of which sent various events off on different tangents.

[Half Miler]

As would Zatopek, Nurmi, etc. When were the first points tables devised?

[EPelle]

However, Rono's scores would likely have been higher if the samples were weighted for his generation. Said Aouita's 1.43/3.29/12.58 would also have counted higher then than they do now.

[jazzcyclist]

What of Henry Rono ? if you include the 3k and the SK steeple surely he comes out tops.

Even if you include the non-championship distance of 3000, his 3000/ Steeplechase/5000 combo score only comes to 3659.

[kamikaze7]

What of Henry Rono ? if you include the 3k and the SK steeple surely he comes out tops.

[jazzcyclist]

FYI, Haile Gebrselassie's 5000/10,000/marathon combo score is 3889. :shock:

[EPelle]

I agree(d), hence the "non-OG distance" disclaimer.