Galen Rupp is on track to break american 10k record

[Brian]

True, several of them ran under 3:35 for 1500, however, none of them ran faster than 13:12 for 5000 or 27:30 for 10,000.

World class at the time and still relatively rare marks for non-Africans.

But the world record was 13:12 (by Quax). Relatively, they were the best of their time.

But I was talking more about the need to be able to close well to win at the international level, not the sub-13/sub-27 thing of earlier.

[Gleason]

[There is also historical precedence: Before the Africans and road racing pulling people quickly to the longer distances for the money, guys who excelled at the 5,000m. in the '70's/early '80's, like Rod Dixon, Brendan Foster, Dick Quax, Thomas Wessinhage, Karl Flechen, etc, for example, all did well at 1500m.. Break out the old T&FN issues and check out the final plus heats of the 1500 at Munich.[/quote]

I agree. For example in 1972 Foster placed in the 1500. By 1976 he moved up to 10,000/5000.

[ed gee]

True, several of them ran under 3:35 for 1500, however, none of them ran faster than 13:12 for 5000 or 27:30 for 10,000.

World class at the time and still relatively rare marks for non-Africans.

[Brian]

Goucher and Flanagan ran shorter distances in the years and months before their bronze medals at Osaka & Bejing over 10K. Geb ran 3000 and even 1500 indoors, so Rupp's running shorter distances may prepare him for Berlin.
He probably won't earn a medal, but he placed 11th at Osaka & 13th at Bejing. IF he places in the top 10 or even in the top six at Berlin his running shorter distances would not have harmed him and may have helped him IMHO.

Both Lananna and Salazar have stated during the last two years that the idea is to prepare Rupp to be able to close. This is something that Coach Joe Vigil referes to in clinics as a runner's "critical speed" and how it must be developed in order to succeed internationally.

Makes good sense to me.

There is also historical precedence: Before the Africans and road racing pulling people quickly to the longer distances for the money, guys who excelled at the 5,000m. in the '70's/early '80's, like Rod Dixon, Brendan Foster, Dick Quax, Thomas Wessinhage, Karl Flechen, etc, for example, all did well at 1500m.. Break out the old T&FN issues and check out the final plus heats of the 1500 at Munich.

[Gleason]

Goucher and Flanagan ran shorter distances in the years and months before their bronze medals at Osaka & Bejing over 10K. Geb ran 3000 and even 1500 indoors, so Rupp's running shorter distances may prepare him for Berlin.
He probably won't earn a medal, but he placed 11th at Osaka & 13th at Bejing. IF he places in the top 10 or even in the top six at Berlin his running shorter distances would not have harmed him and may have helped him IMHO.

Both Lananna and Salazar have stated during the last two years that the idea is to prepare Rupp to be able to close. This is something that Coach Joe Vigil referes to in clinics as a runner's "critical speed" and how it must be developed in order to succeed internationally.

Makes good sense to me.

[Brian]

Goucher and Flanagan ran shorter distances in the years and months before their bronze medals at Osaka & Bejing over 10K. Geb ran 3000 and even 1500 indoors, so Rupp's running shorter distances may prepare him for Berlin.

He probably won't earn a medal, but he placed 11th at Osaka & 13th at Bejing. IF he places in the top 10 or even in the top six at Berlin his running shorter distances would not have harmed him and may have helped him IMHO.

Both Lananna and Salazar have stated during the last two years that the idea is to prepare Rupp to be able to close. This is something that Coach Joe Vigil referes to in clinics as a runner's "critical speed" and how it must be developed in order to succeed internationally.

[Brian]

I figured looking at some statistics would shed some light on how what sort of 5000m mark usually goes with a sub27:00 10000m. Below are all sub27min 10000m runners and their 5000m PB:

http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists ... etail.html

Out of the 30 sub27 guys, 11 have never broken 13min for the 5000m, though to be fair a few of them (in particular Wanjiru) did not run it that often. In addition, all but Wanjiru have run under 13:10 suggesting that might be the lower limit for how "slow" one's 5000m can be for breaking 27min.

Also notable is that the athletes who ran 26:57-27:00 (places 26 through 30 on the list) did not break 13:00 but were close. I'd say that Dutra's conversion is pretty useful for ballparking purposes.

Good work.

[Gleason]

Here, you're right, because he's now run 1.50,0 - a mark which I believe helps him more so than his sub-4 when it comes time to sprint. To have the proven ability to carry two 55-second quarters in his legs without stopping will help him at USATF when he will need a break-away 55-56 to close it out. His faster 3.000m times along with his 13.18 will help with his overall fitness for the 25-lap race in Berlin.

I agree with those additions. In fact, I think that Rupp ran 149.x on the oversize Seattle track indoors. His last 300 on the NCAA DMR was very impressive.

[EPelle]

Here, you're right, because he's now run 1.50,0 - a mark which I believe helps him more so than his sub-4 when it comes time to sprint. To have the proven ability to carry two 55-second quarters in his legs without stopping will help him at USATF when he will need a break-away 55-56 to close it out. His faster 3.000m times along with his 13.18 will help with his overall fitness for the 25-lap race in Berlin.

[Gleason]

Chelanga from liberty ran a 2728 earlier this year.Galen beat him in a american record at 5k indoor,and during the xc nationals

I don't care about race/ethnicity. I do care about improving U.S. distance running standards.

Goucher and Flanagan ran shorter distances in the years and months before their bronze medals at Osaka & Bejing over 10K. Geb ran 3000 and even 1500 indoors, so Rupp's running shorter distances may prepare him for Berlin.

He probably won't earn a medal, but he placed 11th at Osaka & 13th at Bejing. IF he places in the top 10 or even in the top six at Berlin his running shorter distances would not have harmed him and may have helped him IMHO.

[gh]

enough.

[jhc68]

Good one, Will ! That's the perfect response for you.

[williamwindhamjr]

to jhc68 63 0r whatever

If you wanna defend someones maybe you should try a woman and not a grown man.

[joeltetreault]

I figured looking at some statistics would shed some light on how what sort of 5000m mark usually goes with a sub27:00 10000m. Below are all sub27min 10000m runners and their 5000m PB:

http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists ... etail.html

01. 26:17.53 Kenenisa Bekele - 12:37.35
02. 26:22.75 Haile Gebrselassie 12:39:36
03. 26:27.85 Paul Tergat - 12:49.87
04. 26:30.03 Nicholas Kemboi - 13:01.14
05. 26:30.74 Abebe Dinkesa - 12:55.58
06. 26:35.63 Micah Kogo - 13:00.77
07. 26:36.26 Paul Koech - 12:56.29
08. 26:37.25 Zersenay Tadese - 12:59.27
09. 26:38.08 Salah Hissou - 12:50.80
10. 26:38.76 Ahmad Hassan Abdullah - 12:56.27
11. 26:39.69 Sileshi Sihine - 12:47.04
12. 26:39.77 Boniface Toroitich Kiprop - 12:57.11
13. 26:41.75 Samuel Kamau Wanjiru - 13:12.40
14. 26:49.02 Eliud Kipchoge - 12:46.53
15. 26:49.20 Moses Ndiema Masai - 12:50.55
16. 26:49.38 Sammy Kipketer - 12:52.33
17. 26:49.55 Moses Cheruiyot Mosop - 12:54.46
18. 26:49.90 Assefa Mezgebu - 12:53.84
19. 26:50.20 Richard Limo - 12:56.72
20. 26:51.49 Charles Waweru Kamathi - 13:02.51
21. 26:52.23 William Sigei - 13:06.15
22. 26:52.30 Mohammed Mourhit - 12:49.71
23. 26:52.33 Gebre-egziabher Gebremariam - 12:52.80
24. 26:52.87 John Cheruiyot Korir - 13:09.58
25. 26:52.93 Mark Bett Kipkinyor - 12:55.63
26. 26:57.08 Leonard Patrick Komon - 13:04.12
27. 26:57.36 Josephat Muchiri Ndambiri - 13:05.33
28. 26:58.38 Yobes Ondieki - 13:01.82
29. 26:59.61 Bernard Kiprop Kipyego - 13:09.96
30. 26:59.88 Martin Irungu Mathathi - 13:03.84

Out of the 30 sub27 guys, 11 have never broken 13min for the 5000m, though to be fair a few of them (in particular Wanjiru) did not run it that often. In addition, all but Wanjiru have run under 13:10 suggesting that might be the lower limit for how "slow" one's 5000m can be for breaking 27min.

Also notable is that the athletes who ran 26:57-27:00 (places 26 through 30 on the list) did not break 13:00 but were close. I'd say that Dutra's conversion is pretty useful for ballparking purposes.

[williamwindhamjr]

I dont need your respect.I write in these forums because I enjoy doing so.I also enjoy someone talking about my remedial skills.Unlike yourself,I was born and raised in the bronx,not crybabyland.I am sitting here enjoying a cold glass of water.Enjoy your beer.