Wariner vs. Merritt, 2009 - and the X-Man

[Gleason]

OK EPelle & Gleason; your 2-man dialogue is getting tiresome; please take it off-line.

Done.

[Gleason]

Thanks again for proving my point. Taylor was third at Osaka 400 & won Bejing 400H.

You shift gears faster than a race car driver, and the Indy 500 isn't on the radar yet. Your point was just, "On the other hand, IF he runs 400 at USAT&F, makes the 400 team, earns a medal at Berlin 400 then wins 400H in a PR and picks up his second gold medal in the 4x400 final, I will be right." You're talking two races at the same championship.

Now, it is that Taylor won one race at one championship and a different race at a different championship.

I retreat back to the 22nd hour of the day to which this saturday has escaped.

Berlin 400 heat is 11:05 and 400H final is at 20:50. No problem for Clement. Look at his college races.

[gh]

OK EPelle & Gleason; your 2-man dialogue is getting tiresome; please take it off-line.

[EPelle]

Thanks again for proving my point. Taylor was third at Osaka 400 & won Bejing 400H.

You shift gears faster than a race car driver, and the Indy 500 isn't on the radar yet. Your point was just, "On the other hand, IF he runs 400 at USAT&F, makes the 400 team, earns a medal at Berlin 400 then wins 400H in a PR and picks up his second gold medal in the 4x400 final, I will be right." You're talking two races at the same championship.

Now, it is that Taylor won one race at one championship and a different race at a different championship.

I retreat back to the 22nd hour of the day to which this saturday has escaped.

[Gleason]

IF Clement wins the 400H at USAT&F, runs a 400 PR in Europe, wins 400H at Berlin in a PR and runs on 4x400 FINAL in a winning time, I will be wrong.

On the other hand, IF he runs 400 at USAT&F, makes the 400 team, earns a medal at Berlin 400 then wins 400H in a PR and picks up his second gold medal in the 4x400 final, I will be right.

IF neither happens, the debate continues.

Regarding #1: That is the plan he has. 400mH at USATF. 400m in the Golden League races, where he'll have plenty of shots at Merritt and Wariner (opportunities to chase, race and attempt to set a PB). He may not set a PB in a heat/sei/final setting, but he may WIN (= prize money and bonus from his sponsor as repeat champion). 4x400m, if he's chosen, will be USA to lose. No argument.

Regarding #2: You're willing to be "right" at Clement's expense? You snuck in an Angelo Taylor reference earlier. What happened to Taylor's 400mh/400m double attempt?


Gleason, I thought so.

Taylor had 23 minutes rest between 400H final and 400 heat. Clement need not run 400H at USAT&F.

Thanks again for proving my point. Taylor was third at Osaka 400 & won Bejing 400H.

Running 200 by Wariner in 2007 USAT&F produced PR win at Osaka. Look at the records.

[EPelle]

IF Clement wins the 400H at USAT&F, runs a 400 PR in Europe, wins 400H at Berlin in a PR and runs on 4x400 FINAL in a winning time, I will be wrong.

On the other hand, IF he runs 400 at USAT&F, makes the 400 team, earns a medal at Berlin 400 then wins 400H in a PR and picks up his second gold medal in the 4x400 final, I will be right.

IF neither happens, the debate continues.

Regarding #1: That is the plan he has. 400mH at USATF. 400m in the Golden League races, where he'll have plenty of shots at Merritt and Wariner (opportunities to chase, race and attempt to set a PB). He may not set a PB in a heat/sei/final setting, but he may WIN (= prize money and bonus from his sponsor as repeat champion). 4x400m, if he's chosen, will be USA to lose. No argument.

Regarding #2: You're willing to be "right" at Clement's expense? You snuck in an Angelo Taylor reference earlier. What happened to Taylor's 400mh/400m double attempt?


Gleason, I thought so.

[Gleason]

This point? "The worst that can happen with running 400 at USAT&F is..."

Maybe Alan Webb should run the 400m at USATF in order to be a better 1.500m runner. Or Trammell should jump in one in order to have more endurance over the final flight of hurdles.

If it's all conjecture, I suppose we'll end this debate with your other point, namely, "their agents tell them what to say."

You really should have ended this debate quoting Clement, stating, "I'm not going to be a great hurdler until I run the 400 at USAT&F."

IF Clement wins the 400H at USAT&F, runs a 400 PR in Europe, wins 400H at Berlin in a PR and runs on 4x400 FINAL in a winning time, I will be wrong.

On the other hand, IF he runs 400 at USAT&F, makes the 400 team, earns a medal at Berlin 400 then wins 400H in a PR and picks up his second gold medal in the 4x400 final, I will be right.

IF neither happens, the debate continues.

[EPelle]

Actually Felix did touch on the subject of commitments she had to make in the Olympic year. Read her last Universal Sports interview.

[paulthefan]

what we will never hear from Felix Wariner or Gay is that their Sponsor Adidas took more than a few pounds of air out of their tires with all the madison avenue promotional demands. Adidas treated the best most marketable athletes in the prime of their careers like 50$ an hour runway model trash. Very sad. They wont say it but this fan will!..

[EPelle]

This point? "The worst that can happen with running 400 at USAT&F is..."

Maybe Alan Webb should run the 400m at USATF in order to be a better 1.500m runner. Or Trammell should jump in one in order to have more endurance over the final flight of hurdles.

If it's all conjecture, I suppose we'll end this debate with your other point, namely, "their agents tell them what to say."

You really should have ended this debate quoting Clement, stating, "I'm not going to be a great hurdler until I run the 400 at USAT&F."

[Gleason]

Thanks to "EPelle" for proving my point. IF she says "I'm not going to run the 400 at USAT&F" then we'll know for sure. Until then it is conjecture.

[EPelle]

She doesn't make predictions that she WILL WIN....

She said that she was "looking forward to the 200" not that she was going to win it. She made NO predictons. ...

My point is simple, she is conservative, so don't be surprised by her statements.

Los Angeles Times, 2008-05-18 wrote: She and Kersee are united in one goal -- for her to win four medals in Beijing (counting two relays). How did the author know this unless either Kersee or Felix - or both - stated that, and the other one concurred?

You're taking the 200m quote out of context. This is in relation to OT. Why in the world would the 2004 Olympic silver medalist not believe she could win her speciality, the 200m, at the OT? She missed out on the 100m, and said following that race that she was looking forward to the 200m in the same Olympic Trials. The point you are attempting to prove here is causing you to fail to look at the basics.

I'm glad you've mentioned the graduation twice now. The LA Times article quoted twice above is titled, "Sprinter Allyson Felix graduates to the big time". We all know the story about having the opportunity to train full time, and in that same article, readers become aware of that four-gold quest.

Regarding being conservative, what do you expect from the daughter of a pastor? Hold off on that just yet, because Tim Montgomery is the son of a pastor.

Nevertheless, Felix is not the kind of person who would ever have gone out and screamed, "I am going to win four gold medals in Beijing," similarly in Osaka, where she captured three.

First of all, she is smart enough to realise that two of the three Osaka medals were dependent on others not named Allyson Felix to achieve. The same would hold true in Beijing. As a matter of fact, her last race in Beijing was periously close to becoming a silver medal until Richards overtook Anastasija Kapachinskaya in the end of the race. Her short-relay gold medal - if it was ever an option - went up in smoke before the final.

Second of all, the reserved/conservative sprinter isn't outspoken like another athlete eight years earlier was in attempting to win five gold medals ("Drive for Five in 2000"). Said Felix: "'Definitely very disappointed. I trusted and believed in her. It was very unfortunate for me. She was the one I looked up to in 2000, the one I wanted to emulate.' Sorry, Allyson, you don't long jump, and the 200m/400m wasn't possible, so you'll have to settle for four. Said Felix? "I'm disappointed I didn't have the option." The option to do what, Felix? Jog and have a good time? Uh, no... win gold medals in every event she stepped on the line to contest, emulating the attempt her predecessor made.

That athlete from 2000 failed, and later stated that they should have kept mum on those plans until the last minute. Did her regret of stating that make her conservative, too?

Thirdly, others knew Felix was going for four gold medals in Beijing. Re-read the quote by Lauryn Williams above. Felix hadn't lined up for the 100m at the Olympic Trials to get in some extra work and fine-tune things for a later race. She's going to do that this year (run two races at USATF), because she is the reigning world champion ("I probably will double in something just to get the work in since I do have a bye.")

Oh, but if one takes things out of context, as you have with respect to that OT 200m, then, yes, she doesn't make any predictions she will win. Moreover, she shouldn't make any predictions this year that she will win the USATF 200m.

Finally, if Felix is conservative, it doesn't prohibit her from being agressive with her goals and equally disappointed with the outcome of failed expectations she had on herself. Does this sound like a conservative person: "I’m learning how to say no. I think I’m the type of person who is a people-pleaser. I want everyone to be happy and end up doing things here and there."

Not making the 100m team could be put back on her trainer, Kersee. She believed what he said, it didn't work out, so time for the next event, the 200m. She Q at USA OT and made the Olympic final.

Said Kersee in that LA Times article: "I've been blessed to have coached my wife [Jackie Joyner-Kersee], Gail Devers, Florence Griffith-Joyner and now Allyson. My job is just not to screw that up."

What happened in Beijing? The "conservative" 200m sprinter may have stayed conservative in thought, but her actions following that race were anything but conservative. I believe she stopped talking to Kersee for a short while. Her actions spoke louder than her words ever could, just like lining up for the 100m and 200m at the Olympic Trials did as well - something she did after having a meeting with Kersee at the start of the season to gain an overview of what they both wanted to have accomplished in the Olympic year; setting specific goals for the Olympic Trials and the Olympic Games for both races; ensuring those goals were realistic; and determining with Felix how she was going to reach those goals.

They both concurred, four gold medals in Beijing was realistic. They put in the sweat and tears to make it happen, and they told a few folks along the way what their goals were. Forget not that Felix/Kersee wanted the 200m/400m possibility, which could still have netted Felix four gold medals. They were not conservative in speaking about those options.

[Gleason]

Felix saved her predictions for Beijing - an event much greater than Osaka.[/quote]

Where are her predictions?

[Gleason]

"EPelle"'s quotes support my view that Felix is very conservative. She said "its tough" to win four gold medals despite her winning three at Osaka as a fulltime student.

She doesn't make predictions that she WILL WIN....

She said that she was "looking forward to the 200" not that she was going to win it. She made NO predictons.

My point is simple, she is conservative, so don't be surprised by her statements.

Lets discuss her chances after USAT&F. She looks great so far.

[EPelle]

Exact quote and citation of Felix's predictions please?

“No doubt it’s tough [going for four gold medals in Beijing],” Felix said. “At the beginning of the year we looked at it and really gave it a realistic look and thought, ‘Is this really possible?’ Bobby said that he could get me ready, and if he thinks he can get me ready, I can completely depend on that. If it works out, it’s amazing. For me, it would be thrilling.”

“I think anyone going for four golds, competing in so many rounds, would definitely be a testament to what kind of athlete she is,” Williams said of Felix. “It would definitely create a new buzz, maybe take away from what happened in 2000 when someone else was going for five.

“It’s a really great opportunity. You don’t get to see many athletes capable of doing those things.”

She and Kersee are united in one goal -- for her to win four medals in Beijing (counting two relays).

"I'm looking to run four events. I'll see how things go here," Felix said. "It's like icing on the cake if it works out. If I was able to sweep that would be amazing but it's not my ultimate and first priority, which is the 200."

===========================

I recall that she only said that she would run 100 & 200 in OT. When she failed to make 100 team, she said nothing.

'I'm not too disappointed because that's just the way things have worked out,' she says. 'The main priority was always going to be the 200metres anyway, so anything else is a bonus.'

"I don't feel I could have done anything more," a composed Felix said a few minutes after the race. "I gave it my all. I put it on the line and it just wasn't good enough to get one of the top three today.

"I can't be too disappointed about it. I'm just looking forward to the 200."