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**knite** · 05-21-2009, 08:35 PM

I mean, what are qualification standards for?

I do not think they need to remove those standards that are set, and continue to use them as the barometer for who runs what event and their entrance into the meet inself!

Fewer fans??? Is he really that serious on limiting the amount of fans in attendance?

They need to remove the 2 empty days in between the middle of trials week, if anything. I like the 92/96 trials schedules the best or ratehr better than the last 2.

**bad hammy** · 05-21-2009, 11:01 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but we will get just as good a team for the WC this year in a four day qualifying meet as we got for the last OG on ten days. The Oly Trials are a bloated mess that is used by USATF and the LOC to suck money out of fans and athletes and has nothing to do with the quality of the team. And any extra TV coverage does squat to develop new fans.

gh · 05-21-2009, 11:33 PM

And for every person who shares your point of view I can find a hundred who don't. The antis just yell the loudest.

**bad hammy** · 05-21-2009, 11:41 PM

Which point of view?

1. The quality of team for a OG is not better than that for a WC?

2. The OT as configured is a bloated money suck?

3. The difference in TV coverage does not make or break new fans?

And who has been louder than a certain Editor of T&FN who devoted three straight high-profile editorials to the pro side?

**Brian** · 05-22-2009, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by gh

And for every person who shares your point of view I can find a hundred who don't. The antis just yell the loudest.

Count me. I personally don't mind using two weeks of vacation every four years to see a great example of the sport I claim to love.

The only time I would like to see this condensed is if getting to the stadium was such a pain in the *ss I wouldn't want to have to do so as often. But this doesn't apply for places like Eugene: Even if raining, it's an absolute pleasure to walk a mile from any direction to get to Hayward Field (if you don't take the shuttles, that is). How tough it was to walk across the Willamette River from Autzen, to stroll through the campus town west of the U of O and then through the beautiful campus itself, to hike from the south with the butte eventually leading to Hendricks Park on your right for six blocks...

Now, put the Trials in Phoenix, make me walk a mile across scalding concrete with zero tree shade, or stand sweating waiting to ride a shuttle full of (like me) stinky people at the end of a long day, and I will listen intently to any ideas concerning shortening the event!

As far as Smith's (very good) point: If the incentive isn't there to continue in athletics, many on the fringe won't do so and eventually the talent pool will dry up. For many, qualifying for the Trials is a means to an end, that end being a concrete goal that provides the justification to self, family, and friends to continue in the sport for a few more years to see how good you can be, rather than take that "safe" job selling insurance through Uncle Ted's connections right out of high school or college.

Believe it or not, there are kids in 7th grade being told what they can't do academically and steered into certain directions because of that perception. Do we really want to emulate this in US track & field?

gh · 05-22-2009, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by bad hammy

Which point of view?

1. The quality of team for a OG is not better than that for a WC?

No, I certainly don't dispute that. Teams end up about the same.

2. The OT as configured is a bloated money suck?

dispute that totally

3. The difference in TV coverage does not make or break new fans?

dispute that way totally

And who has been louder than a certain Editor of T&FN who devoted three straight high-profile editorials to the pro side?

Well, I'd like to think that I brought--despite admitting how soft I am for the Trials--some cold dispassionate analysis to the whole thing, not yelling. Clarifying that USATF apparently made up a lot of stuff out of whole cloth in saying changes were needed.

The blowing up of the biggest, most successful track festival in the country because we dropped some relay batons is just stunningly bogus.[/b]

gh · 05-22-2009, 12:34 AM

If you want to read the three columns in question, go here:

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/fte/

**bad hammy** · 05-22-2009, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by bad hammy

Which point of view?

1. The quality of team for a OG is not better than that for a WC?

No, I certainly don't dispute that. Teams end up about the same.

2. The OT as configured is a bloated money suck?

dispute that totally

If the team quality is no different then why the six extra days to pick an Oly team over a WC team (the latter done in conjunction with the USATF Jr. meet no less)? That is six extra days of housing and meals non-local fans and (some) athletes & staff etc. pay for, plus tickets (which are a minor cost in comparison). It looks and feels bloated (OG team selected in ten days, WC team plus JR Champs in four) and it does suck money.

And as I have mentioned in a previous thread, these are not ten days spent in comfort. The last three OTs have been decidedly uncomfortable from the fan's perspective, because of the heat in Sacto and the sardine-like accommodations in Eugene.

Originally posted by gh

The blowing up of the biggest, most successful track festival in the country because we dropped some relay batons is just stunningly bogus.

I agree that batons are a bogus rationale for change, but I can think of a number of valid rationales.

**kuha** · 05-22-2009, 12:53 AM

For what it's worth, bad hammy is entirely and precisely correct.

However, this whole argument is quite tedious and I'm rapidly losing interest in it. If the powers that be decide a 5-day Trials is what's needed, "we" will do just fine. If they decide to make it a 3-week affair, the world won't end. The Trials is a bloated athletics/Woodstock/love-in that has drifted far away from the simple necessity to pick a championship team. In its current form, it doesn't really make much objective sense on any level, but then many things in life don't make sense...

**bad hammy** · 05-22-2009, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by kuha

For what it's worth, bad hammy is entirely and precisely correct.

Thanks, kuha! The check's in the mail . . .

**kuha** · 05-22-2009, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by bad hammy

Originally posted by kuha

For what it's worth, bad hammy is entirely and precisely correct.

Thanks, kuha! The check's in the mail . . .

Given the state of things, I prefer Euros. Thanks!!

dl · 05-22-2009, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by kuha

The Trials is a bloated athletics/Woodstock/love-in that has drifted far away from the simple necessity to pick a championship team. In its current form, it doesn't really make much objective sense on any level, but then many things in life don't make sense...

Who cares about objective sense? Woodstock didn't make objective sense, but I'm sure those who were there were glad that they were, just as I was at the Trials. The meet is great exactly because it's a "love-in". Pure joy for 9-10 days for a track fan.

**jkjoregon** · 05-22-2009, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by bad hammy

And as I have mentioned in a previous thread, these are not ten days spent in comfort. The...... OTs have been decidedly uncomfortable from the fan's perspective, because of..... the sardine-like accommodations in Eugene.

You mean you don't like being stuffed with 20,000 other like minded folks?

Great way to meet your fellow track nuts as you excuse your back being pushed against your neighbor's knees. But I agree it would be nice to have a little more room.

There is a general plan ( not specific yet) to do something about the seating and restrooms before 2012. 8-) Hope the economy will not prevent this.

**BCBaroo** · 05-22-2009, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by jkjoregon

Originally posted by bad hammy

And as I have mentioned in a previous thread, these are not ten days spent in comfort. The...... OTs have been decidedly uncomfortable from the fan's perspective, because of..... the sardine-like accommodations in Eugene.

You mean you don't like being stuffed with 20,000 other like minded folks?

Great way to meet your fellow track nuts as you excuse your back being pushed against your neighbor's knees. But I agree it would be nice to have a little more room.

There is a general plan ( not specific yet) to do something about the seating and restrooms before 2012. 8-) Hope the economy will not prevent this.

I am/was/will be immeasurably spoiled by the seats that I ended up with last year. I could've fit a coffee table in front of me.

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