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  • US weakness in 800

    "I've never understood how we can have 10 of the top 20 400-meter runners in the world, but you go up one event and we're weak" - Nick Symmonds
    So true.

  • #2
    I think most of our top 800 guys are being coached by the same group. They all run the exact same race.

    That is, stay back and kick. This result will not allow any sort of progression on the world scene. They peak for a meet like the trails and then cannot duplicate that effort any other time of the yr.

    The trials race was a great one, but we admittedly left our best 800m runner home because the others were better on that day.

    Our guys should be better than 1:45's. Don't get me wrong, 1:45 is a great time for newcomers and guys who are toying with the event itself(learning it...) However, our seasoned 800m runners need to be better than 1:45 capable. That sit and kick mentality needs to axed.

    I hope guys like Hernandez stays with his coach cuz he attacks the 800m race and runs how the world competition will run.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: US weakness in 800

      Originally posted by spikey
      "I've never understood how we can have 10 of the top 20 400-meter runners in the world, but you go up one event and we're weak" - Nick Symmonds
      I'm not sure I understand why an 800-meter guy would be apparently encouraging top 400-meter guys to move up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by knite
        I hope guys like Hernandez stays with his coach cuz he attacks the 800m race and runs how the world competition will run.
        Good points, but this one-size-fits-all can't be conversely applied, either. If everyone ran as Jacob Hernandez - or Robinson, for that matter, there'd be a lot of great USA 700m runners, but very, very few who could complete the race in 1.44.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: US weakness in 800

          Originally posted by spikey
          "I've never understood how we can have 10 of the top 20 400-meter runners in the world, but you go up one event and we're weak" - Nick Symmonds
          So true.
          Conversely, Kenya could be asking why they are usually the dominant country in the 800 but when they go one event down, they're weak. Maybe there is something about the relationship between the two events...

          Comment


          • #6
            gee, ya think maybe aerobic vs. anaerobic comes into play?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by gh
              gee, ya think maybe aerobic vs. anaerobic comes into play?
              This is why I'd like to see Lagat run 800 at USAT&F. He ran well at 1000m in 2008.

              IF he placed in the top three, perhaps Webb or other milers would run 800 at nationals.
              none

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by EPelle
                Originally posted by knite
                I hope guys like Hernandez stays with his coach cuz he attacks the 800m race and runs how the world competition will run.
                Good points, but this one-size-fits-all can't be conversely applied, either. If everyone ran as Jacob Hernandez - or Robinson, for that matter, there'd be a lot of great USA 700m runners, but very, very few who could complete the race in 1.44.

                Hernandez, did you see his 800m in the Big 12, he sat back and tried to kick, and got out kicked and actually finished 3rd.

                The U.S. runners have to decide and train for running both 400's fast, that simple.
                on the road

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are four parts to the 800m, not two laps. Nevertheless, USA athletes have to run smarter parts of their races, be in fast-contention at 600m (not moving up from behind i.e.: Borzakovskiy or Mattias Claesson) and have the strength to carry the load - and lactic acid - home.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Speedfirst
                    Originally posted by EPelle
                    Originally posted by knite
                    I hope guys like Hernandez stays with his coach cuz he attacks the 800m race and runs how the world competition will run.
                    Good points, but this one-size-fits-all can't be conversely applied, either. If everyone ran as Jacob Hernandez - or Robinson, for that matter, there'd be a lot of great USA 700m runners, but very, very few who could complete the race in 1.44.

                    Hernandez, did you see his 800m in the Big 12, he sat back and tried to kick, and got out kicked and actually finished 3rd.

                    The U.S. runners have to decide and train for running both 400's fast, that simple.
                    If you noticed my full comment, you'd notice that I don't prescribe to the same anecdote for all 800 runners, that's why I made a comment about most of our 800 guys being trained out in Oregon. They pretty much run the same race. Each needs to know their own strengths and use that to their best advantage in their race pattern. All of those guys aren't sit and kick capable type of guys.

                    Especially considering that they don't have the leg speed to compete with the likes of guys running 1:44 on avg.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by knite
                      Originally posted by Speedfirst
                      Originally posted by EPelle
                      Originally posted by knite
                      I hope guys like Hernandez stays with his coach cuz he attacks the 800m race and runs how the world competition will run.
                      Good points, but this one-size-fits-all can't be conversely applied, either. If everyone ran as Jacob Hernandez - or Robinson, for that matter, there'd be a lot of great USA 700m runners, but very, very few who could complete the race in 1.44.

                      Hernandez, did you see his 800m in the Big 12, he sat back and tried to kick, and got out kicked and actually finished 3rd.

                      The U.S. runners have to decide and train for running both 400's fast, that simple.
                      If you noticed my full comment, you'd notice that I don't prescribe to the same anecdote for all 800 runners, that's why I made a comment about most of our 800 guys being trained out in Oregon. They pretty much run the same race. Each needs to know their own strengths and use that to their best advantage in their race pattern. All of those guys aren't sit and kick capable type of guys.

                      Especially considering that they don't have the leg speed to compete with the likes of guys running 1:44 on avg.
                      Knite I did see your full comment, I was adressing EPelle , who commented about Hernandez
                      on the road

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EPelle
                        There are four parts to the 800m, not two laps. Nevertheless, USA athletes have to run smarter parts of their races, be in fast-contention at 600m (not moving up from behind i.e.: Borzakovskiy or Mattias Claesson) and have the strength to carry the load - and lactic acid - home.
                        There are 2 laps and from within those 2 laps you will have the parts. How is it not 2 laps? Again real simple, there are two ways to the 800m, just like the 400m, go out and maintain or kick at the end.
                        on the road

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is actually a 400m within the middle of the 800m race - from 200m to 600m - within the parametres of those two laps you're lumping together. The 800m is not run lap-to-lap ("train for running both 400's fast, that simple.").

                          Regarding Hernandez: He ran 50,96/54,35 last year at NCAA. Wheating finished 0,01s behind with 51,65/53,68 splits. Hernandez may be saving his front-running for NCAA.

                          As a matter of fact, it really sounds so: “Wow, I’ve never even thought about it,” Hernandez said. “It would definitely (be disappointing) to have worked so hard and come up short, but the way my training is going, I feel like things will click at nationals. If everything goes right and I still get beat, then there are no regrets.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can't remember who said it, but someone once said that no one is 'kicking' in the last 200m of an 800m race, it's those who decelerate the least due to lactic kicking in.

                            I'm guessing this would be the 'strength'/'lactate tolerance' bit you train for?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EPelle
                              There are four parts to the 800m, not two laps. Nevertheless, USA athletes have to run smarter parts of their races, be in fast-contention at 600m (not moving up from behind i.e.: Borzakovskiy or Mattias Claesson) and have the strength to carry the load - and lactic acid - home.
                              I have no dispute, but I have a question.

                              What are the "four parts to the 800m?"

                              I promise that I won't argue with "EPelle's" answer!
                              none

                              Comment

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