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  • #16
    odelltrclan

    I think you likely have a good description. However, I am not certain of the conclusion about not having a 'better than JW2007' because: 1) the intervening program wasn't so fundamentally different; and 2) 2008 faced more constraints in terms of getting through the Trials (i.e., semi-peak for the 2008 Trials) whereas here he is primarily concerned with Berlin/August, and probably not even the W/L record vs LM until the WCs.

    However, you said 'not better' and I guess I am expecting that he will be at the 43.45-43.6 level in Berlin (i.e., about on par, but not better).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by odelltrclan
      [1.] The speed will be there in August along with the strength and we will see a better JW then.
      [2.] I don't think we will see a JW that was better than the 2007 version (i.e. 43.4) until 2010 and beyond.
      1. Hope so. I want to see an epic mid-43s battle in Berlin (or even before)
      2. Why? Has he been beset with little injuries that have precluded him from getting better? He was on track to become the GOAT, but got derailed last year. LM needs JW (IMO) to improve to where he should be (mid 43).

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      • #18
        JW didn't hook up with Hart until the spring so he would have missed most of the base training. Other than some tinkering can he realistically help him this year or will it be next year?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 502CD
          JW didn't hook up with Hart until the spring so he would have missed most of the base training. Other than some tinkering can he realistically help him this year or will it be next year?
          Sure he can help him this year, the history they have with each other, is very significant.
          on the road

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Speedfirst
            Originally posted by 502CD
            JW didn't hook up with Hart until the spring so he would have missed most of the base training. Other than some tinkering can he realistically help him this year or will it be next year?
            Sure he can help him this year, the history they have with each other, is very significant.
            True, Hart will help that gap between him and Merritt not be as big. But a silver is still a silver. :wink:

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            • #21
              The fact is that he is now with Hart and simultaneously is now at performance levels not seen since his freshman year at Baylor. It is possible that physically he does not have the durability to progress beyond this level. He may just be tapped out.
              ... nothing really ever changes my friend, new lines for old, new lines for old.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by paulthefan
                The fact is that he is now with Hart and simultaneously is now at performance levels not seen since his freshman year at Baylor. It is possible that physically he does not have the durability to progress beyond this level. He may just be tapped out.
                His 20.30 for 200 at Reebok was his fastest time since his 20.24 at the 2006 USAT&F. I assume that means his speed is OK.
                none

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                • #23
                  Neither has gone 44 low yet which they both have done at this point by now the past couple of years. Conditions have played a factor. It'd be a shame if they don't face each other until Berlin.

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                  • #24
                    I think also to what extent does coach Hart help this year. 502CD, you mentioned tinkering, well I certainly feel it can and will go beyond that. Now whether any of that will produce desired results, remains to be seen.
                    on the road

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 502CD
                      Neither has gone 44 low yet which they both have done at this point by now the past couple of years. Conditions have played a factor. It'd be a shame if they don't face each other until Berlin.
                      I think Merritt ought to be a little concerned as well. By this last year (by 7/3) Merritt had run 44.00, 44.03 and 44.34. And he really hasn't run close to those times yet this year. His times in the Nationals heats were also relatively slow. I know the wind played it's part, but Gil Roberts ran 44.9x in the finals which is close to his PR this year so Merritt's 44.50 is relatively weak. Also, Merritt's 20.07 200m is virtually the same as his 20.08 on 5/9 last year.

                      So neither man is burning up the track right now. We'll see how it all pans out over the next two months with their one-off races in Europe.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by trackdug
                        So neither man is burning up the track right now. We'll see how it all pans out over the next two months with their one-off races in Europe.
                        And it's sad that no one else in the world seems to stepping it up to keep them honest. They can both be mired in so-so (for them) performances and still win.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Marlow
                          Originally posted by trackdug
                          So neither man is burning up the track right now. We'll see how it all pans out over the next two months with their one-off races in Europe.
                          And it's sad that no one else in the world seems to stepping it up to keep them honest. They can both be mired in so-so (for them) performances and still win.
                          True. It seems like all the men's 400m times this year are relatively weak.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Marlow
                            Originally posted by odelltrclan
                            [1.] The speed will be there in August along with the strength and we will see a better JW then.
                            [2.] I don't think we will see a JW that was better than the 2007 version (i.e. 43.4) until 2010 and beyond.
                            1. Hope so. I want to see an epic mid-43s battle in Berlin (or even before)
                            2. Why? Has he been beset with little injuries that have precluded him from getting better? He was on track to become the GOAT, but got derailed last year. LM needs JW (IMO) to improve to where he should be (mid 43).
                            I think some subsequent posters answered my thoughts on the Why. It is just my opinion that the switch in coaches as late as it has come this year will set him back, and that coach is going to retool his training for the highest possible worlds peak. Perhaps coach Hart put him through some fitness tests and determined he needed more strength training and that is why he ran the way he did at USATF. JW has done too many good things in the quarter to doubt him now. But, I just don't think his peak will be below his PB from 2007 until he has had at least a full year of continuity with coach Hart. I could be wrong. Perhaps the programs were similar enough between coaches so that his fitness level is not much different than it would have been had he been with Hart all along.

                            Part of the benefit to having a good coach is for that coach to know when to pull back the reins and I think that is Alan Webb's problem. He works too hard and gets too injured.

                            I for one think JW's best and fastest days are still ahead of him, provided he can stay healthy. I just don't think it will be this year. The big question is if JW does go sub 43.4, will LM be even lower? We may need to 2 of them at their very best to see MJ's record fall.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              It seems to me that Merritt has always been a runner who runs his best when pushed. Except for the Olympic final where JW faded for whatever reason, Merritt runs his best times when we has close competition. In fact, I think that since he's turned pro just about all of his 400m PRs have come with JW in the race.

                              This year Merritt seems to be coasting alot, which may in turn bite him on the ass if he doesn't work harder at running his own race. He's not attacking the first 200m of the race this year. So I wonder how he will respond when pressed harder through the 300m mark.

                              As far as last year, Wariner' s biggest problem was that he forgot how the run his race. For most of the year he wasn't attacking the final turn like he did in 2006-2007. I think that's a big part of the Hart strategy. Even Sanya has been attacking the curve this year and the results show. By the 300m mark she has the race in the bag. That's what JW needs to do as well. Go back to the tried and true race plan. It's worked for him very well. Hart will get his fitness level back up to where it should be if he isn't there yet. He'll need that strength in the last 100 (his patented kick) in those epic battles to come.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by trackdug
                                Originally posted by 502CD
                                Neither has gone 44 low yet which they both have done at this point by now the past couple of years. Conditions have played a factor. It'd be a shame if they don't face each other until Berlin.
                                I think Merritt ought to be a little concerned as well. By this last year (by 7/3) Merritt had run 44.00, 44.03 and 44.34. And he really hasn't run close to those times yet this year. His times in the Nationals heats were also relatively slow. I know the wind played it's part, but Gil Roberts ran 44.9x in the finals which is close to his PR this year so Merritt's 44.50 is relatively weak. Also, Merritt's 20.07 200m is virtually the same as his 20.08 on 5/9 last year.

                                So neither man is burning up the track right now. We'll see how it all pans out over the next two months with their one-off races in Europe.
                                It is true that this is the case. However, the nature of the competition year for both of them probably play a role. JW does not have to race the 400 at USATF/Trials and LM does not have to face them. As long as they are at a level above the others right now, they do not really have to push early. I think that we should expect the early-season marks to be more modest and that they are preping for a killer finish - I hope I am right.

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