Junior Nationals Decathlon Standard... what the heck?

[polevaultpower]

http://www.usatf.org/events/2009/USAJun ... ndards.asp

Decathlon 6200
Decathlon H.S. 6250

First of all, there should be 3 standards. I assume the first one they have listed is with open (college) specs. There should also be a standard for decathlons done with Junior specs.

Second, 50 points apart?! 1.6k discus vs 2k discus, 12lb vs 16lb shot, and 39" vs 42" hurdles... I do not claim to be a combined events expert, but that sure sounds like more than 50 points of difference to me :?

Can someone please explain the logic behind this?

[unclezadok]

Is it possible the 6200 is for international junior implements rather than senior implements?

[gh]

based on presentation of the other events, I believe you are correct:

Shot Put 17.60 (57-9)
Shot Put 12# H.S. 18.11 (59-5)
Shot Put 16# 16.15 (53-0)
Discus Throw 53.16 (174-5)
Discus 1.6kg H.S. 56.46 (185-3)
Discus 2kg 50.04 (164-2)
Hammer Throw 53.00 (173-11)
Hammer 16# 50.00 (164-0)
Hammer 12# 51.82 (170-0)
Javelin Throw 58.22 (191-0)
Decathlon 6200
Decathlon H.S. 6250

The default settings would obviously seem to be Junior stuff. (not that anybody has access to a Junior implement anywhere but at the nationals!)

[tandfman]

Hammer Throw 53.00 (173-11)
Hammer 16# 50.00 (164-0)
Hammer 12# 51.82 (170-0)

That makes no sense at all. The junior hammer is heavier than the 12# hammer. Why is the standard longer? Shouldn't it be between the 16# standard and the 12# standards, as it is with the shot, which has identical weights?

[Marlow]

That makes no sense at all.

so what's your point? :P

[polevaultpower]

Is it possible the 6200 is for international junior implements rather than senior implements?

I don't know why they wouldn't have a standard for open implements then, given that a large percentage of participants at Jr Nationals are college freshmen, who obviously would have been participating in decathlons with open implements.

Name 5 decathlons in this country that use JR implements?

How on earth is a 19 y/o college freshman who is a 6100 point decathlete supposed to find a decathlon with HS implements/junior to compete in?


I am sure a lot of these athletes are over 21, but according to my stats on athletic.net, there are 31 college freshmen with season bests over 6200, and 48 athletes with season bests between 5800 and 6186.

I bet most of them could score 6200 if they could find a meet with HS implements.

[gm]

It is 6200 for anything BUT the high school implements.

The standards are very carefully worded to note where there are different standards for international junior implements and senior implements.

[polevaultpower]

It is 6200 for anything BUT the high school implements.

The standards are very carefully worded to note where there are different standards for international junior implements and senior implements.

It's still stupid. There ought to be at least a several hundred point difference between decathlon scores between open and HS implements.

[westcoasttiger]

The reason there is so little difference in the standards is because so few high school athletes have access to international implements so more decathlons are contested with US HS implements (USATF JO's, etc) so more qualify using the lower HS standard. There is no rule against a collegiate qualifying using HS implements but what competition could they enter? So the standards are set to have an appropriate number of individuals qualify that will also attend the meet.

[polevaultpower]

The reason there is so little difference in the standards is because so few high school athletes have access to international implements so more decathlons are contested with US HS implements (USATF JO's, etc) so more qualify using the lower HS standard. There is no rule against a collegiate qualifying using HS implements but what competition could they enter? So the standards are set to have an appropriate number of individuals qualify that will also attend the meet.

More college athletes than HS athletes generally attend the meet. In part because older athletes have an advantage, but also in part because they are more likely to get their trip paid for by their school.

The current standard makes it much easier for high school decathletes to qualify.


Part of why this was brought to my attention is because our (WA) State Decathlon is contested with the open implements. Probably the only one that is, but they have just always done it that way for whatever reason.

I assumed that there were separate standards so that these athletes would not be disadvantaged, but the standards are essentially the same, and athletes in our state have a huge disadvantage in qualifying.