Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Raising the Hurdles

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Speedfirst
    replied
    Originally posted by Grasshopper
    Originally posted by Speedfirst
    Yeah most of the HS girls are 3 stepping, especially the top level ones.
    The "top level ones" don't represent the average or the majority. If you believe that "most" of the girls are 3-stepping then I have to assume your experience is mostly with large invites and championship-season meets, where the MINORITY of kids are competing. Go to any dual meet, small invite, or league championship meet in California and I'll bet you good money that you'll see more than half of the 100h girls 4 or 5-stepping at least part of the race.
    I am referring to large invites amd championship meets, sorry for not stating that. But I definitely have the girls I coach 3 step, including Jr. high.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marlow
    replied
    Originally posted by skiboo
    Sorry but no sympathy here for this 4 stepping nonsense. I remember the girls who ran the 100 hurdles in high school and I NEVER saw one who didn't 3-step. I could be wrong, maybe a trip to the Ontario schools championships will reveal something to the contrary, but I'd be damn shocked to see it. Average HS girl 17-18 seconds? Average WHERE? Sorry but I think we're on different planets, and yours has stronger gravity.
    I'm sorry, but you are really out of touch with the reality of HS track.

    Here are the FACTS. In Florida (a very good track state - we start practicing outdoors in January!) we have flrunners.com, that lists EVERY girl that has been in a FAT meet - which are very common now, so this is pretty much everyone. Here are the numbers for the 100H

    There are 1,167 girls listed.

    Here are the ranks and the times. I was too conservative. The average time is in the 19s!!!!

    1 13.83
    100 16.18
    200 17.14
    300 17.81
    400 18.43
    500 18.95
    600 19.56
    700 20.02
    800 20.42
    900 20.98
    1000 21.54
    1167 31.02

    Leave a comment:


  • Grasshopper
    replied
    Originally posted by Speedfirst
    Yeah most of the HS girls are 3 stepping, especially the top level ones.
    The "top level ones" don't represent the average or the majority. If you believe that "most" of the girls are 3-stepping then I have to assume your experience is mostly with large invites and championship-season meets, where the MINORITY of kids are competing. Go to any dual meet, small invite, or league championship meet in California and I'll bet you good money that you'll see more than half of the 100h girls 4 or 5-stepping at least part of the race.

    Leave a comment:


  • ndamix
    replied
    Go ahead and raise the women's hurdles to 36" for the straight & 33" for the oval. This should truly test their hurdling ability.

    While you're at it...increase the college/junior/senior women's shot weight to 12lbs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Speedfirst
    replied
    Yeah most of the HS girls are 3 stepping, especially the top level ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • skiboo
    replied
    Originally posted by Marlow
    Originally posted by Smoke
    There are a lot of 4 steppers at 33" due to pure intimidation.
    All my 4-steppers in the last 16 years were DESPERATE to 3-step, but simply weren't fast enough to achieve the required stride length. I haven't seen many 17-18 second 100Hurdlers who could 3-step, and that's what your average HS girl runs.
    Sorry but no sympathy here for this 4 stepping nonsense. I remember the girls who ran the 100 hurdles in high school and I NEVER saw one who didn't 3-step. I could be wrong, maybe a trip to the Ontario schools championships will reveal something to the contrary, but I'd be damn shocked to see it. Average HS girl 17-18 seconds? Average WHERE? Sorry but I think we're on different planets, and yours has stronger gravity.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marlow
    replied
    Originally posted by Smoke
    There are a lot of 4 steppers at 33" due to pure intimidation.
    All my 4-steppers in the last 16 years were DESPERATE to 3-step, but simply weren't fast enough to achieve the required stride length. I haven't seen many 17-18 second 100Hurdlers who could 3-step, and that's what your average HS girl runs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Smoke
    replied
    There is no reason to change the high school hurdle heights. But once in college I vote we do raise the women's hurdles.

    I am not a fan of lengthening the race, there is no point and you do start to insert a limiting factor into the race. As it stands today the women clear hurdles high enough to negotiate a man's high hurdle, and that is the 400h women.

    Some argue that we will eliminate the shorter hurdlers, oh well. We do the same on the men's so what's the difference? By the way, Mark McKoy is 5'9", and Allen is less than 6 feet tall. What we are talking about is requiring a higher talent quotient and skill requirement for the women. As much as I love Gail we cannot allow pure speed to dominate an event that is meant to test the dynamic ability of the athletes.
    If you ever get the chance to see the technical breakdown of the top women in the world you would understand why many call for raised barriers at the elite level. There is minimal hurdle skill required in the women's race, and I believe the race would benefit from a higher barrier.

    As for the high schoolers, they are strong enough. There are a lot of 4 steppers at 33" due to pure intimidation.

    If you need an example of why hurdles should be raised check out hurdle eight of the 400h Olympic final and watch our gold medalist negotiate that barrier, there is no better example than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marlow
    replied
    Originally posted by measurer
    1. If you raise the hurdle heights you would need to adjust the distance between the hurdles.
    ??!!
    I have never seen that. My hurdlers and I hurdle at all different heights, from 30" to 42" (boys, girls go up to 36"), and we never have trouble adjusting our steps.

    Leave a comment:


  • measurer
    replied
    Watching world class athletes it's easy to come to the conclusion that it'st ime to raise the women's hurdles but there are many opposed to it-
    1. If you raise the hurdle heights you would need to adjust the distance between the hurdles.
    2. Non world class female hurdles have trouble getting three steps. I was amazed to see my local high school hurdlers learning to alternate lead legs for the highs because of the difficulty getting 3 steps.
    3. Many Federations are against it. They say it scares away grassroot participation.
    4. Many top coaches in the US are split over the topic. Some say yes, it's time - while others say point out the increase in fatigue over the last few hurdles resulting in a breakdown of form and steps.
    The debate goes on!

    Leave a comment:


  • skiboo
    replied
    Originally posted by sprintblox
    The current distance between the women's hurdles may be too short for the faster/taller hurdlers, especially if the hurdle height is increased, but that doesn't mean extending it all the way to equal the men's distance makes sense. For the 100h/110h there isn't going to be a spacing that works well for both men and women.
    Again, is 2 feet really that much? I don't think it is, others disagree.

    Leave a comment:


  • 110hedgeNYC
    replied
    Former international 110 hurdler and former coach for both boys and girls HS hurdles.

    Responses:

    - keep High School the same on sprint hurdles; no changes needed
    - decent argument for changing to the 400 meter distance for HS, but see no harm in staying with 300 distance for HS.

    - women's college and international: yes, raise women's 100 hurdles to 36. I do not believe this would require changing the total distance or distance between; it would just require better hurdling technique and make the women's race more like the men's, where it's about hurdling first, and sprinting second. currently, the 33" level does not test the technical abilities of women's hurdlers sufficiently.

    - If you look at most world class women's 100 meter hurdlers, such as Jones, Kallur, Felicien, D. Harper, etc., they all seem capable of adjusting to 36". Jones would have the most difficult transition initially, as she does not lean or stay forward enough even for the 33" barriers.

    Leave a comment:


  • sprintblox
    replied
    The current distance between the women's hurdles may be too short for the faster/taller hurdlers, especially if the hurdle height is increased, but that doesn't mean extending it all the way to equal the men's distance makes sense. For the 100h/110h there isn't going to be a spacing that works well for both men and women.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marlow
    replied
    Originally posted by dukehjsteve
    So the question flat out is, can they run 3 steps between the hurdles or not ?
    Asked and answered - a few elites could, and would benefit. The vast majority - no.

    Leave a comment:


  • dukehjsteve
    replied
    Originally posted by skiboo
    Originally posted by guruof track
    I'm not an expert either, but changing the actually LENTGH of the race would give me pause. The distance between mens hurdles and womens hurdle is significant enought to make a difference, considering that males stride patterns are longer, stride frequency is faster, and so forth..........that would be asking a bit much whn coupled with RAISING the hurdle.
    Pertaining to how much farther the women'd have to run between barriers:

    Men's hurdles : 9.14 meter spacing

    http://www.iaaf.org/community/athletics ... =9428.html

    Women's hurdles: 8.5 meter spacing.

    Haven't we seen a fair number of women hurdlers chopping their stride to successfully navigate barriers? Gail Devers '92 comes to mind. So the extra 2 feet (9.14 meters - 8.5 meters and approximating) to run between barriers could be a good thing? Thoughts?
    That was pretty much my thought. The gals almost look a bit cramped with the current setup. So the question flat out is, can they run 3 steps between the hurdles or not ?

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X