Raising the Hurdles

[guruof track]

See, that's what I mean. You see D1 results in eTN and think that's normal? It's the very tippy-top of a huge iceberg of athletes, MOST of whom are NOT on scholarship!!! There are plenty of mediocre D1 athletes who are on teams because many teams have no-cuts (and there's also the Title IX imperatives - many colleges are desperate for women athletes, of ANY caliber). But now take a look at D2, D3, NAIA,and JCs!

Well for one I would far rather see how the sport can allow its best performers to truly challenge themselves, and the only way we can see whether speedy hurdlers can handle 110s would be, first have them run it at 33". If they are handling the spacing, then go to 36". I don't profess to know how the IAAF would go about this if they ever got serious about looking into it.

ALSO: Parity for women in athletics. If they're gonna pole vault, let 'em run a hurdles race that takes REAL hurdlers to deal with the heights. I'd compromise and say go 36" with 100 hurdles first, but that's my second choice.

edit I also don't know much about the US college system, I just don't think it should dictate what events are run by elites, at the end of the day.

Running 36 inches makes sense, but the distance between the hurdles is playing with fire.

[skiboo]

Now you're just being silly

Um . . . that was kinda my point too.

Like I said, I never advocated 42" sticks. YOU came out with mention of full weight men's implements. Just stop it ok, I cannot stand all this sillliiinnesss................ :lol:

[Marlow]

I also don't know much about the US college system, I just don't think it should dictate what events are run by elites, at the end of the day.

No national federation would dare alienate the rank-and-file members for the sake of the few. I could see the height go up 3", but going to the w110H just isn't going to happen in any one's lifetime that's reading this.

[skiboo]

Running 36 inches makes sense, but the distance between the hurdles is playing with fire.

2 feet! Bigga-bigga-Woo-Woo :P I'll ask the question again - is there a lot of chopping of strides when women come up too close to barriers? Maybe Smoke could weigh in on this.

cheers

[guruof track]

Running 36 inches makes sense, but the distance between the hurdles is playing with fire.

2 feet! Bigga-bigga-Woo-Woo :P I'll ask the question again - is there a lot of chopping of strides when women come up too close to barriers? Maybe Smoke could weigh in on this.

cheers

Over the 400 hurdles yea, but no one does that over the 100 hurdles you dont have enough time.

[Marlow]

[quote=guruof track]

Running 36 inches makes sense, but the distance between the hurdles is playing with fire.

2 feet! Bigga-bigga-Woo-Woo :P I'll ask the question again - is there a lot of chopping of strides when women come up too close to barriers? Maybe Smoke could weigh in on this.
cheers

Over the 400 hurdles yea, but no one does that over the 100 hurdles you dont have enough time.[/quote:3q1ylt7d]
Yes, there are actually some women who can't run with a full stride length in the 100H. Probably at least .01% of all the women hurdlers!

[nmzoo]

In the state where I live/coach (sometimes) at least 90% of WHS hurdlers are 4 or 5 steppers. Changing either height or spacing would produce hurdle fields of even more 4 or 5 steppers and/or 2 or 3 athletes at a meet. There are also VERY few JV or sophmore meets offered during the season, and most HSAD's, who have complete control or competition schedules, don't even know how to spell "hurdles".

Is that better? - I don't think so. It would certainly drastically limit the prospects of current hurdlers for college opportuniities/scholarship aid not to mention what it would do to multi's prospects, even at the college level.

[Marlow]

I looked up the local college, UNF, and got the results to their big invitational this spring. This is not a cherry-picked result - I could find MUCH worse.

Event 19 Women 100 Meter Hurdles
Preliminaries
1 1150 Louissaint, Lauren SR Florida Int'l 14.49q 0.2 2
2 1160 Yisrael, Naim SR Florida Int'l 14.51q 1.4 3
3 1138 Boston, Brittney SR Florida Int'l 14.55q 2.7 1
4 1498 Seigworth, Amanda SO Slippery Rock 15.12q 2.7 1
5 1636 Holmes, Rebecca JR Winthrop 15.21q 1.4 3
6 1110 Wright, Latoya SO Florida A&M 15.26q -0.6 4
7 1098 Holiday, Kierra JR Florida A&M 15.35q -0.6 4
8 1330 Perrill, Kaitie FR Lake Erie 15.36q -0.6 4
9 1294 Stinson, LaKeshia JR Kennesaw State 15.38q 2.7 1
10 1500 Smith, Allison SO Slippery Rock 15.45 -0.6 4
11 1635 Grayson, LeShon FR Winthrop 15.65 -0.6 4
12 1058 Harrell, Antoinett SO Edward Waters 15.67 0.2 2
13 1472 Stanley, Rachel FR North Florida 15.68 2.7 1
14 1456 Bridges, Andrea FR North Florida 15.89 2.7 1
14 1531 Thiel-Granzow, Lyn Unattached 15.89 0.2 2
16 1002 Brown, Tanekka FR Claflin 15.90 1.4 3
17 1298 Wilcox, Jessica FR Kennesaw State 15.95 1.4 3
18 1574 Bennett, Morganne FR West Virginia We 16.24 1.4 3
19 1140 Camacho, Elma SR Florida Int'l 16.58 0.2 2
20 1103 Oknokwo, Oluchukwu FR Florida A&M 16.82 -0.6 4
21 1034 Sarra, Nicole FR Edinboro 17.07 1.4 3
22 1383 Dieringer, Emily FR Milwaukee Sch. o 17.43 0.2 2
23 1004 Milton, Latycia FR Claflin 17.82 1.4 3

THIS is college track.

[wineturtle]

Drake Relays girls H.S.4x100 shuttlehurdles winner averaged 16.4xand #16 team 17.65...so saying national average of allgirls is 17-18 seems spot on.

[skiboo]

Yes, there are actually some women who can't run with a full stride length in the 100H. Probably at least .01% of all the women hurdlers!

Marlow I didn't phrase it very well. I'm thinking of women who come up too close on a hurdle and hit it, with Devers being the classic example. Is this because these women are having trouble controlling their speed? In these cases doesn't it suggest that they could easily run another 2 feet between barriers? Are there women who are so fast that they could easily stretch it out at 9.14 meters of spacing? Nothing wrong with asking these questions, is there?

[skiboo]

I looked up the local college, UNF, and got the results to their big invitational this spring. This is not a cherry-picked result - I could find MUCH worse.

Event 19 Women 100 Meter Hurdles
Preliminaries
1 1150 Louissaint, Lauren SR Florida Int'l 14.49q 0.2 2
2 1160 Yisrael, Naim SR Florida Int'l 14.51q 1.4 3
3 1138 Boston, Brittney SR Florida Int'l 14.55q 2.7 1
4 1498 Seigworth, Amanda SO Slippery Rock 15.12q 2.7 1
5 1636 Holmes, Rebecca JR Winthrop 15.21q 1.4 3
6 1110 Wright, Latoya SO Florida A&M 15.26q -0.6 4
7 1098 Holiday, Kierra JR Florida A&M 15.35q -0.6 4
8 1330 Perrill, Kaitie FR Lake Erie 15.36q -0.6 4
9 1294 Stinson, LaKeshia JR Kennesaw State 15.38q 2.7 1
10 1500 Smith, Allison SO Slippery Rock 15.45 -0.6 4
11 1635 Grayson, LeShon FR Winthrop 15.65 -0.6 4
12 1058 Harrell, Antoinett SO Edward Waters 15.67 0.2 2
13 1472 Stanley, Rachel FR North Florida 15.68 2.7 1
14 1456 Bridges, Andrea FR North Florida 15.89 2.7 1
14 1531 Thiel-Granzow, Lyn Unattached 15.89 0.2 2
16 1002 Brown, Tanekka FR Claflin 15.90 1.4 3
17 1298 Wilcox, Jessica FR Kennesaw State 15.95 1.4 3
18 1574 Bennett, Morganne FR West Virginia We 16.24 1.4 3
19 1140 Camacho, Elma SR Florida Int'l 16.58 0.2 2
20 1103 Oknokwo, Oluchukwu FR Florida A&M 16.82 -0.6 4
21 1034 Sarra, Nicole FR Edinboro 17.07 1.4 3
22 1383 Dieringer, Emily FR Milwaukee Sch. o 17.43 0.2 2
23 1004 Milton, Latycia FR Claflin 17.82 1.4 3

THIS is college track.

At the risk of completely humiliating myself, I ran 15.1 over 33" barriers 100 meters in grade 9, then did 15.9 for 110 meters the next year over 36" barriers. I was slooooww..........nice technique, shame about the legspeed.

YOu mind explaining again why the IAAF, if it were considering a 110 race, would consider the stats you've put up? Would they argue it was harmful at the grassroots level? Or more?

thanks

[dukehjsteve]

I'm not an expert either, but changing the actually LENTGH of the race would give me pause. The distance between mens hurdles and womens hurdle is significant enought to make a difference, considering that males stride patterns are longer, stride frequency is faster, and so forth..........that would be asking a bit much whn coupled with RAISING the hurdle.

Pertaining to how much farther the women'd have to run between barriers:

Men's hurdles : 9.14 meter spacing

http://www.iaaf.org/community/athletics ... =9428.html

Women's hurdles: 8.5 meter spacing.

Haven't we seen a fair number of women hurdlers chopping their stride to successfully navigate barriers? Gail Devers '92 comes to mind. So the extra 2 feet (9.14 meters - 8.5 meters and approximating) to run between barriers could be a good thing? Thoughts?

That was pretty much my thought. The gals almost look a bit cramped with the current setup. So the question flat out is, can they run 3 steps between the hurdles or not ?

[Marlow]

So the question flat out is, can they run 3 steps between the hurdles or not ?

Asked and answered - a few elites could, and would benefit. The vast majority - no.

[sprintblox]

The current distance between the women's hurdles may be too short for the faster/taller hurdlers, especially if the hurdle height is increased, but that doesn't mean extending it all the way to equal the men's distance makes sense. For the 100h/110h there isn't going to be a spacing that works well for both men and women.

[110hedgeNYC]

Former international 110 hurdler and former coach for both boys and girls HS hurdles.

Responses:

- keep High School the same on sprint hurdles; no changes needed
- decent argument for changing to the 400 meter distance for HS, but see no harm in staying with 300 distance for HS.

- women's college and international: yes, raise women's 100 hurdles to 36. I do not believe this would require changing the total distance or distance between; it would just require better hurdling technique and make the women's race more like the men's, where it's about hurdling first, and sprinting second. currently, the 33" level does not test the technical abilities of women's hurdlers sufficiently.

- If you look at most world class women's 100 meter hurdlers, such as Jones, Kallur, Felicien, D. Harper, etc., they all seem capable of adjusting to 36". Jones would have the most difficult transition initially, as she does not lean or stay forward enough even for the 33" barriers.