¶m4 x 400: Florida State 2:59.99 CL

[knite]

The idea that the NCAA system burns out athletes is completely bogus.

[guruof track]

I agree knite, but if your going to make such a claim.............atleast use pertinent data to back it up.

[Taliban]

Baylor is a great example. They have made Olympic Champions using their system, but some have failed to porgress under the system when they go to the next level. Baylor didnt do ANYTHING different with either athlete though. So explain the flaw in that system???[/quote]

Not only at the next level but at Baylor as a collegiate athlete.

I get what people are trying to say but they are saying it wrong. The NCAA season is tiring but in the case of the twins they will be fine because they hardly ran.

[50.50]

it's not the NCAA system that burns out athletes it's the coaches that do that. look at florida states approach opposed to many other programs, the athletes there rarely run and if they do it's in off events, it's not about winning your main event every weekend it's about winning when it matters. the coaches there train through many of the meets and use the smaller season meets as glorified practices and never tapper off to the smaller meets. all of the coaches there see how important it is to no over run their athletes. who cares about a random march meet when what you are focusing on is not until june and july, you should be training during that time.

there are so many coaches that want their athletes to compete at the highest level each and every weekend and PR and thats just not possible, if you are training correctly you are not able to do that every weekend. sometimes i think it's the coaches own personal attitude that they want to show everyone else around the country the are the best when in actuallity they should be thinking about the athletes and not themselves.

Not to pick on any university i just know from what i have seen and so many coaches think there 100 meter runners should be running the 100 every weekend, personally i think thats completely wrong you need to train and if that means running 200s, 400s, and 4x400 at some of you lower key meets than yes you have to do it.

I remember a while ago when fred sharpe, 400 hurdler from auburn ran, he used to run a lot of 800s, there is so much more to running that going out and just running your one event.

[Taliban]

Fred Sharpe is a bad example because he was a higher rated half miler than 400ih coming out of HS. He ran 1:49.xx and 4:14.xx in the mile. The 800m was his race of preference during the indoor season.

I get what you're saying though.

[knite]

I agree knite, but if your going to make such a claim.............atleast use pertinent data to back it up.

Pertinent like what? Much of it is personal view...WHy would I take the time and effort when I'm not the one downing the NCAA system....Folks throw out blanket statements about the NCAA, but then don't associate an example of how someone is "burnt out"....that in and of itself shows the fallacy of the claim in the 1st place.

[Powell]

The idea that the NCAA system burns out athletes is completely bogus.

If you look at the all-time HS top 10 at 400, half of them didn't go on to great international career at the senior level, one is the current Olympic champion, one has achieved world-class performances but is yet to win any major medals and three were successful internationally after turning to drugs. Not sure that's a great record.

[guruof track]

Knite, I poorly worded that. The data comment were meant for the critics, not you.

Again its nothing wrong with the system or the coaches. It does exactly what its needed to do.

[EPelle]

If you look at the all-time HS top 10 at 400, half of them didn't go on to great international career at the senior level, one is the current Olympic champion, one has achieved world-class performances but is yet to win any major medals and three were successful internationally after turning to drugs. Not sure that's a great record.

Powell, what does that, specifically, have to do with the NCAA? Moore was a high school phenom, period; I watched him split 44,8 at the CA State Meet. Henry Thomas split 44s on the still-standing high school 4x400m record; that should tell you something about how great that high school team was. Two of Obea Moore's teams challenged - yet failed - to better that record. Oh, and speaking of that record, Michael Marsh was on that team. What happened to him in his career? He also went through the NCAA system - at UCLA, same place as Thomas, Lewis, Everett, Young. Apropos, Thomas DID run on the same UCLA squad as two-consecutive Olympic champions (Lewis and Young) as well as half of the = WR 4x400m team (Lewis and Everett). NCAA (UCLA) did exactly what to Thomas? William Reed split 44,4 in high school. He was too fast for his own good. What did NCAA have to do with his future progression?

Sounds like some of these great high schoolers were at their peaks before they entered university. Thomas happened to be able to extend it.

[KevinM]

If you look at the all-time HS top 10 at 400, half of them didn't go on to great international career at the senior level, one is the current Olympic champion, one has achieved world-class performances but is yet to win any major medals and three were successful internationally after turning to drugs. Not sure that's a great record.

All of which has what to do with the NCAA system? Moore, Harrison, and Merrit didn't even really run in the NCAA, fwiw.

What about the fact that 13 of the top 14 performers all-time (including every Olympic Champion 1984-2004) competed at the NCAA level for at least a year (and only Merrit's leaving school just before his first NCAA meet keeps it from being 14 for 14).

[gm]

It is also kinda tough to have an international career while in lockup... just sayin...

[guruof track]

Let me ask a question to the NCAA critics.

If they don't improve after college, is that a reflection on their past coach or current coach (past system or current system)?

[dal4018]

Let me ask a question to the NCAA critics.

If they don't improve after college, is that a reflection on their past coach or current coach (past system or current system)?

Good question because I haven't seen any improvement in Virginia Powell as a hurdler and she set NCAA marks for the aforementioned event indoors and outdoors but hasn't made any improvement I thought she would have been a sinch to qualify for China last year.And Kellie Wells while she was good hurdler she wasn't in Powell's class in the collegiate ranks and she if not for the ill-timed injury would have made the Olympic Team way ahead of her.

[Big Daddy]

Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 6030
Location: Vanuatu
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:50 am Post subject:

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knite wrote:
The idea that the NCAA system burns out athletes is completely bogus.


If you look at the all-time HS top 10 at 400, half of them didn't go on to great international career at the senior level, one is the current Olympic champion, one has achieved world-class performances but is yet to win any major medals and three were successful internationally after turning to drugs. Not sure that's a great record.
Alot of guys did well after high school. I think you may want to review over the list one more time.

[guruof track]

Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 6030
Location: Vanuatu
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:50 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

knite wrote:
The idea that the NCAA system burns out athletes is completely bogus.


If you look at the all-time HS top 10 at 400, half of them didn't go on to great international career at the senior level, one is the current Olympic champion, one has achieved world-class performances but is yet to win any major medals and three were successful internationally after turning to drugs. Not sure that's a great record.
Alot of guys did well after high school. I think you may want to review over the list one more time.

Thats natural. Its not because of the NCAA that don't get better. Life happens, I can name many people from other countryies who fail to excell beyond what are considered prep years.

But if you still doubt the NCAA system, especially where sprinters are concerned, see how many of them came through the college ranks (NCAA, JUCO or NAIA). There is your proof of how bad the current system is.