Fans deserve better!

[Daisy]

Anyone see the article on the front page criticizing the preselected athletes for not putting in an honest effort?

Specifically one comment at the bottom?

If they don't show, they don't promote their sponsors. Besides, this is Hayward field, not some high school track. These no-shows are an embarrassment.

Seems a little strong. I think it is great that these athletes are training through the trials aiming to be at their peak in the worlds. Are the fans really that pissed?

[Gleason]

Re: Fans deserve better!

Anyone see the article on the front page criticizing the preselected athletes for not putting in an honest effort?
Specifically one comment at the bottom?

If they don't show, they don't promote their sponsors. Besides, this is Hayward field, not some high school track. These no-shows are an embarrassment.

Seems a little strong. I think it is great that these athletes are training through the trials aiming to be at their peak in the worlds. Are the fans really that pissed?

They aren't "training through the trials." Many runners have tried another event to learn that they win the OG in it, eg. Wottle(800), Ovett(800), Devers(100) and Perec(200) or you can go back to 1948 when Harrison Dillard won the 100 instead of the high hurdles, Mel Patton lost the 100 but won the 200 and Arthur Wint lost the 800 but came back to win the 400.

I've been to multiple OGs, OTs, nationals and NCAAs. The first day is usually dull, so seeing Wariner try the 200, Clement try the 400, Lagat try the 800 and Gay go 100% in the 100 instead of "easing up" would make that day much more interesting. In fact, I wish that Gay and Felix had tried the 400. Felix finished 4th (2007) and 5th (2008)in the 100, so I would have liked to see her run three 400s in three days.

Because USAT&F can't draw the crowd that OT does, it can barely draw a crowd for four days, so some stars do not have the time to double. WCh allows them to use WCh winners to allow doubling. I disagree 100% with that article.

[Daisy]

Re: Fans deserve better!

They aren't "training through the trials."

From another thread.

"I felt alright," Lagat said, quite winded after the race. "It's hard to run the 800m. I can't remember the last time I ran one, although I did run a 1000m last year in 2:16. But I needed to work on my speed and this was a good training run for me."

Lagat, who said he plans on doubling at the World Championships, will not run in the next round. He said he was planning on leaving the meet, returning to his hotel to pack, flying out of Eugene and heading to Germany where he will train and next compete.

Front-page link on Universal Sports thursday wrap-up.

[Gleason]

Re: Fans deserve better!

They aren't "training through the trials."

From another thread.

"I felt alright," Lagat said, quite winded after the race. "It's hard to run the 800m. I can't remember the last time I ran one, although I did run a 1000m last year in 2:16. But I needed to work on my speed and this was a good training run for me."
Lagat, who said he plans on doubling at the World Championships, will not run in the next round. He said he was planning on leaving the meet, returning to his hotel to pack, flying out of Eugene and heading to Germany where he will train and next compete.

Front-page link on Universal Sports thursday wrap-up.

There is a difference between "training through" and "training run." In 2007 Wariner ran 20.35 to finish fourth behind Martin at USAT&F. Martin went on to finish fourth at Osaka. Wariner probably would have finished fifth at Osaka if the U.S. would have been allowed to enter four 200 sprinters and the schedule would have allowed it. A "training run" for Wariner is a career highlight for 99.99% of elite athletes.

I don't know if "Daisy" has ever run or coached, so here is an example of "training through."
IF Lagat's 800 heat is on June 25, "training through" could be this:
June 24
1. Two miles in 15 minutes warmup.
2. 4 x 100 meters in 13 - 14 seconds with a 100 meters jog to prepare for:
3. 20 x 400 meters at 60 seconds with a 100 meters jog in 60 seconds.
4. One mile warmdown in eight minutes.
About 10 miles total.

I saw no example of "training through."

[Brian]

Re: Fans deserve better!

Anyone see the article on the front page criticizing the preselected athletes for not putting in an honest effort?

Specifically one comment at the bottom?

If they don't show, they don't promote their sponsors. Besides, this is Hayward field, not some high school track. These no-shows are an embarrassment.

Seems a little strong. I think it is great that these athletes are training through the trials aiming to be at their peak in the worlds. Are the fans really that pissed?

While the writer has a point, please keep in mind that this was written by someone not seeing (or perhaps even caring, for that matter) about the Big Picture:

It is my understanding (and someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on this!) if a person with a wildcard doesn't compete or place in the top three in the final (runs in a different event, like Lagat), it means yet another person wearing red, white, and blue in the event at the Worlds.


Take Allison Felix for example. If she, the defending champ, places in the top three in an event final, only three athletes (including Felix) from the US go to Berlin in the event. If she skips the final, there are three US sprinters going to the Worlds PLUS Felix herself, by virtue of her wildcard.

Some of these people--Felix a prime example--would be in theory risking their year-end ranking (and sponsorship contract incentives) by being "beaten" (throwing) in the final, so either no final or a different event (Lagat) where they wouldn't be world or US ranked anyway.

So unless I'm incorrect about this, we, as a national team, are better off with our elite title defenders skipping the finals or doing another event entirely. The only downside might be an elite qualifying to advance (as both Lagat and Felix did) which takes a spot--and the nationals experience away from another, probably inexperienced and developing, athlete. But in the Big Picture, perhaps better to send another already truly elite on to Berlin.

And that Worlds experience--even if ousted in the first round--can pay HUGE dividends down the road in future Worlds or The Games for a developing potential star, especially in the sprints where the event turnover is greater.


Think U-S-A.

Not O-R-E-G-O-N.

[Gleason]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. In 2007, Felix finished fourth in the 100 at USAT&F. She could have run at Osaka, but she gave her place to Lewis--the fifth placer. In the 200 because Felix won, USAT&F fourth placer LaShaunte'a Moore ran at Osaka and made the final.

It is confusing at WCh. Nations are allowed to enter THREE athletes in each event if:
1. Three have the "A" standard or
2. Two have the "A" standard and one has the "B" standard

Wildcards are defending champions who are additional to the above.

I'll skip the TWO athletes rules.

[Brian]

[quote="Gleason"]I'm sorry, but you are wrong. /quote]


Sincere thanks for quick response.

[Gleason]

My pleasure. Rorick and I are former T&FN statisticians, but I referred to his response for "A" and "B" info on men's 5000 and women's TJ! This is complicated.

[EPelle]

Re: Fans deserve better!

IF Lagat's 800 heat is on June 25, "training through" could be this:
June 24
1. Two miles in 15 minutes warmup.
2. 4 x 100 meters in 13 - 14 seconds with a 100 meters jog to prepare for:
3. 20 x 400 meters at 60 seconds with a 100 meters jog in 60 seconds.
4. One mile warmdown in eight minutes.
About 10 miles total.

I saw no example of "training through."

Gleason, I wouldn't suppose you would ever find this type of example of "traning through" for Lagat, as he lends one day a week to the track on average. I've never read that Lagat, despite what low-level difficulty he may face in a race of no consequence, has ever trained hard the day before he competed.

The purpose of this 800m was for speed work. Point #3, 20x400m at 60 pace with 60s jog between, dulls his legs - it doesn't add speed.

Perhaps the Wariner comment was hyperbole, but can you state how his training runs are career highlights for 99,99% of elite athletes? By nature of the word, aren't they already in a class by themselves?

[Gleason]

Re: Fans deserve better!

IF Lagat's 800 heat is on June 25, "training through" could be this:
June 24
1. Two miles in 15 minutes warmup.
2. 4 x 100 meters in 13 - 14 seconds with a 100 meters jog to prepare for:
3. 20 x 400 meters at 60 seconds with a 100 meters jog in 60 seconds.
4. One mile warmdown in eight minutes.
About 10 miles total.
I saw no example of "training through."

Gleason, I wouldn't suppose you would ever find this type of example of "traning through" for Lagat, as he lends one day a week to the track on average. I've never read that Lagat, despite what low-level difficulty he may face in a race of no consequence, has ever trained hard the day before he competed.
The purpose of this 800m was for speed work. Point #3, 20x400m at 60 pace with 60s jog between, dulls his legs - it doesn't add speed.
Perhaps the Wariner comment was hyperbole, but can you state how his training runs are career highlights for 99,99% of elite athletes? By nature of the word, aren't they already in a class by themselves?

Thanks for proving my point. No defending champion "trained through." Elite athletes are state high school champions even in states such as Wyoming or those who letter in a Divison 1 t&f program. Thousands of athletes are "elite."

That is the problem with the "Rabble-Rouser" journalist. Newspapers are dying because writers are trying to call attention to their dopey ideas rather than informing readers. IF Gay hadn't promised to sprint 100% in the 100, Clement had chosen 400H, Lagat had chosen 1500, attendance would have been less than 8500. That was a great first day attendance. In 2007 it was 5480 without a Global Recession, but journalists only want to report bad news.

[EPelle]

You're absolutely correct in that it wasn't a meet he's trained through, it was about a training run. The entire point was that he used the race as a training ground to better his speed.

After the "Thousands of athletes are "elite." " comment, I'm unsure what the flip-flopping of events and the supposed tie-in to attendance had to do with 1) elite athletes being inferior to Wariner, and 2) Lagat's training run. With respect to your comment, where are there "thousands" of 200m sprinters (the event to which the Wariner comment was linked) who are the best or most skilled members of this group (19,30-20,19)? Wariner is barely even in the elite of his class.

[Gleason]

You're absolutely correct in that it wasn't a meet he's trained through, it was about a training run. The entire point was that he used the race as a training ground to better his speed.

After the "Thousands of athletes are "elite." " comment, I'm unsure what the flip-flopping of events and the supposed tie-in to attendance had to do with 1) elite athletes being inferior to Wariner, and 2) Lagat's training run. With respect to your comment, where are there "thousands" of 200m sprinters (the event to which the Wariner comment was linked) who are the best or most skilled members of this group (19,30-20,19)? Wariner is barely even in the elite of his class.

Wariner probably would have finished FIFTH in the 200 at Osaka. See my posting at 9:17pm June 26. He is an elite 200 sprinter. He won the Texas AAAAA 400 & 200 in 2002.

[EPelle]

Wariner probably would have finished FIFTH in the 200 at Osaka. See my posting at 9:17pm June 26.

Fifth in Osaka doesn't qualify the potential Osaka race as a training race -- the current topic being debated (training through the trials). This appears to simply be a matter of interpretation and semantics. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to look up a post made at 21.27 yesterday; we are nine time zones separated, and I haven't an idea to which thread you may have posted. Lagat, in so many words, stated he got in a good (speed) training session, running 800m (the "half-distance" of 1.500m). Isn't that what Wariner (200m, half the distance of 400m) and Felix (100m, half the distance of 200m) are doing?

He is an elite 200 sprinter. He won the Texas AAAAA 400 & 200 in 2002.

Gleason, by inference, winning the high school 200m/400m state championship has become the definer here? What exact criteria has made Wariner the elite 200m sprinter, and why would 99,99% of other elite sprinters have been happy to have made a career mark out of a training run by Wariner?

[Daisy]

All I meant was that they are using it for training. If 'training run' is the preferred term then go with that. Personally, I think this is exactly what they should be doing.

[Gleason]

Re: Fans deserve better!

They aren't "training through the trials."

From another thread.

"I felt alright," Lagat said, quite winded after the race. "It's hard to run the 800m. I can't remember the last time I ran one, although I did run a 1000m last year in 2:16. But I needed to work on my speed and this was a good training run for me."
Lagat, who said he plans on doubling at the World Championships, will not run in the next round. He said he was planning on leaving the meet, returning to his hotel to pack, flying out of Eugene and heading to Germany where he will train and next compete.

Front-page link on Universal Sports thursday wrap-up.

There is a difference between "training through" and "training run." In 2007 Wariner ran 20.35 to finish fourth behind Martin at USAT&F. Martin went on to finish fourth at Osaka. Wariner probably would have finished fifth at Osaka if the U.S. would have been allowed to enter four 200 sprinters and the schedule would have allowed it. A "training run" for Wariner is a career highlight for 99.99% of elite athletes.

I don't know if "Daisy" has ever run or coached, so here is an example of "training through."
IF Lagat's 800 heat is on June 25, "training through" could be this:
June 24
1. Two miles in 15 minutes warmup.
2. 4 x 100 meters in 13 - 14 seconds with a 100 meters jog to prepare for:
3. 20 x 400 meters at 60 seconds with a 100 meters jog in 60 seconds.
4. One mile warmdown in eight minutes.
About 10 miles total.

I saw no example of "training through."

Here is the quote that "EPelle" requested. I'm sorry for duplication that used bandwith. :cry: