Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

where are the U.S. throwers? [split]

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • where are the U.S. throwers? [split]

    Originally posted by James Fields
    Useful and authoritative information on this subject can be seen at:
    http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/stand...sid=47761.html]
    It kills me how the USA can have so many men A qualifiers in the

    200 20.59
    110H 13.55

    and so few in the

    HT 77.50 (254-3)
    JT 81.00 (265-9)

  • #2
    Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

    Originally posted by Marlow
    Originally posted by James Fields
    Useful and authoritative information on this subject can be seen at:
    http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/stand...sid=47761.html]
    It kills me how the USA can have so many men A qualifiers in the

    200 20.59
    110H 13.55

    and so few in the

    HT 77.50 (254-3)
    JT 81.00 (265-9)
    Every state in union contests the 200 and 110H at the HS level. Hyperbolizing slightly, 5 contest the hammer, 12 contest the javelin. Next question?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

      Originally posted by gh
      Every state in union contests the 200 and 110H at the HS level. Hyperbolizing slightly, 5 contest the hammer, 12 contest the javelin. Next question?
      OK, my next question is: because the USA has HS and college track teams in such abundance, as opposed to most other countries in the world, whose 14-21 year-olds have to join a sports club (not that they don't in good numbers, but not in the high proportion of the USA's HS/college system) aren't the number of USA HT/JT potentials pretty darned good vis-à-vis the rest of the world?

      Anyone know any pertinent stats about how many USA 16- and 20-year-olds are on a track team, compared to other countries? I bet Sweden and/or Germany have high numbers, but not a lot of other countries.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

        Originally posted by Marlow
        OK, my next question is: because the USA has HS and college track teams in such abundance, as opposed to most other countries in the world, whose 14-21 year-olds have to join a sports club (not that they don't in good numbers, but not in the high proportion of the USA's HS/college system) aren't the number of USA HT/JT potentials pretty darned good vis-à-vis the rest of the world?

        Anyone know any pertinent stats about how many USA 16- and 20-year-olds are on a track team, compared to other countries? I bet Sweden and/or Germany have high numbers, but not a lot of other countries.
        How about the stats concerning how many 16-20 year old 6'+, 220+ guys in other countries guys end up steered towards football year-round? "Future College/NFL Quarterback/Linebacker" is a more enticing label than "Future World Class Javelin Thrower" to US kids.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

          That a whole'nuther problem. I'm talking about kids IN track.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

            Originally posted by Marlow
            That a whole'nuther problem. I'm talking about kids IN track.
            Which is WHY he made the comment about the lack of athletes at that size competing in that event. Folks who do not live in the US fail to realize how much T&F is a 3rd tier sport.

            When you have options like football, basketball and baseball attracting all the talent, naturally, most of the kids will not participate in T&F.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

              Originally posted by knite
              When you have options like football, basketball and baseball attracting all the talent, naturally, most of the kids will not participate in T&F.
              Agreed, but they ARE good, big athletes in college track. I'm thinking that there are SPers in the mid-to upper 50s and DTers in the 170-190 range that could become great HTers and maybe even good JTers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

                Originally posted by knite
                Originally posted by Marlow
                That a whole'nuther problem. I'm talking about kids IN track.
                Which is WHY he made the comment about the lack of athletes at that size competing in that event. Folks who do not live in the US fail to realize how much T&F is a 3rd tier sport.

                When you have options like football, basketball and baseball attracting all the talent, naturally, most of the kids will not participate in T&F.
                I dont think you can consider T&F a 3rd tier sport for high schoolers. Adults yes, but not HS, T&F is bigger than baseball, and basketball has only a limited number of athletes on the team. It does not compete with T&F in a lot of ways. Football on the other hand . . . . many coaches encourage participation in track for speed and strength development.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

                  Originally posted by odelltrclan
                  I dont think you can consider T&F a 3rd tier sport for high schoolers. Adults yes, but not HS, T&F is bigger than baseball, and basketball has only a limited number of athletes on the team. It does not compete with T&F in a lot of ways. Football on the other hand . . . . many coaches encourage participation in track for speed and strength development.
                  Football players are certainly the core of our boys team. It's a great relationship, because they get big and strong in the weight room for football and tear up the 'normal-sized' kids in track, and we give them speed training and coordination drills (hurdles, jumps, throws) in return. The good news is that all of them don't pan out in football (i.e., get a scholarship - walk-ons in football are relatively rare), so they continue in track (where walk-ons are the core of many collegiate programs). We have just as many graduates continue on in track as we do in football (averaging about 3-4 per year in each sport - in a graduating class of 150), even though the scholarship opportunities are much more scarce in track.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    Football players are certainly the core of our boys team. It's a great relationship, because they get big and strong in the weight room for football and tear up the 'normal-sized' kids in track, and we give them speed training and coordination drills (hurdles, jumps, throws) in return. The good news is that all of them don't pan out in football (i.e., get a scholarship - walk-ons in football are relatively rare), so they continue in track (where walk-ons are the core of many collegiate programs). We have just as many graduates continue on in track as we do in football (averaging about 3-4 per year in each sport - in a graduating class of 150), even though the scholarship opportunities are much more scarce in track.
                    Yes, but how many of them continue with T&F when they have a choice, as opposed to continuing because they are not good enough for a football scholarship?
                    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

                      Originally posted by knite
                      Originally posted by Marlow
                      That a whole'nuther problem. I'm talking about kids IN track.
                      Which is WHY he made the comment about the lack of athletes at that size competing in that event. Folks who do not live in the US fail to realize how much T&F is a 3rd tier sport.

                      When you have options like football, basketball and baseball attracting all the talent, naturally, most of the kids will not participate in T&F.
                      But American shot putters are doing all right, even though there's probably more overlap in body type between footballers and SPers than footballers and JTers. Had Jan Zelezny been born in the US, chances are he wouldn't have gone into football.
                      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

                        Originally posted by gh
                        Originally posted by Marlow
                        Originally posted by James Fields
                        Useful and authoritative information on this subject can be seen at:
                        http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/stand...sid=47761.html]
                        It kills me how the USA can have so many men A qualifiers in the

                        200 20.59
                        110H 13.55

                        and so few in the

                        HT 77.50 (254-3)
                        JT 81.00 (265-9)
                        Every state in union contests the 200 and 110H at the HS level. Hyperbolizing slightly, 5 contest the hammer, 12 contest the javelin. Next question?
                        A case in point is Dehn, a sophomore who unexpectedly threw 70m at the MidEast Regional. He started at Wisconsin (walk-on) interested in the Decathlon, as he was athletic but had not yet been real good at any individual event (and was a state all-star in football I think, maybe all-league+ in BB). They had him throw a turbo jav indoors and the guy cranks one out further than expected. They start him on the jav and 15 months later he throws 230+/70+ and breaks the school record and PRs for the 4th time that year and 8th overall (208 or so as a freshman).

                        But American shot putters are doing all right, even though there's probably more overlap in body type between footballers and SPers than footballers and JTers.
                        Everyone does SP, many/most big guys do so before HS. In addition to not too many states offering the more esoteric events, including TJ, there are relatively few coaches that have a lot of expertise in the event. Further, universities have very good strength coaches, based mainly for football but they get used by all of the sports at many places. Thus, good training for the SP is supported in related physical development. These strength coaches are not doing things that are developing the more unique actions of JT, HT (this is just a guess, I do not know enough about it but it is a particular type of speed/quickness that is maybe not directly related to football), and TJ.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 2009 World Championship entry rules, performance standar

                          Originally posted by Powell
                          Yes, but how many of them continue with T&F when they have a choice, as opposed to continuing because they are not good enough for a football scholarship?
                          As I said, those that get a fb scholarship DO go play fb, but they are plenty who, for whatever reason, didn't get the fb scholarships, that have the abilities to throw far. There are plenty of strong-armed QBs and/or pitchers who have insufficient accuracy to get a look, but can throw really, really far.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X