Have Blake and company qualified for the WC?

[toyracer]

Only a Negative B sample will give them a thin chance, because JAAA still cannot let them go, even with a negative B sample.

Whoa.

You want the JAAA to deny the five their spots on the team for Berlin if the B samples all come back negative? Are you aware that if the B sample comes back negative it negates the result from the A sample test?

The IAAF is specific in stating:

32.2.(ii) sufficient proof of an anti-doping rule violation under Rule 32.2(a) is established by either of the following: presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in the Athlete’s A Sample where the Athlete waives analysis of the B Sample and the B Sample is not analysed; or, where the Athlete’s B Sample is analysed and the analysis of the Athlete’s B Sample confirms the presence of the Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers found in the Athlete’s A Sample.

In other words, there is no doping violation unless the B sample is also positive, or the athlete forgoes the testing of the B sample. The B sample test has to reinforce the A sample test; if not, the A sample test finding in invalid. A positive A sample finding is not enough.

You want to condemn all five even if their B samples are negative; what happened to playing by the rules?

Examples of athletes who were erroneously sanctioned when A samples were positive, only to be reinstated when the B samples were negative:

Yudelquis Contreras http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=4266575

Bernard Lagat http://www.rediff.com/sports/2003/oct/02ath.htm Lagat threatened a lawsuit after the ordeal and the IAAF completely exonerated him.

The Lagat case in particular is one the JAAA show heed: if Lagat's Federation had not leaked the news of the A positive his name would never have been dragged through the mud. The JAAA has a massive information leak, which is itself a violation of IAAF anti-doping rules.

To counter your assertion re: the B sample negative: it would not give them a "thin chance", it would wipe their records clean.

[Sportsfanx1]

We will know in a few days. Everything need to be done by Thursday.

I really think the decision is already made, on their fate. Only a Negative B sample will give them a thin chance, because JAAA still cannot let them go, even with a negative B sample.

My gut feeling is that they will not go, even if the B sample is negative, and rightfully so.

[TrainerPhil]

Blake's only value to the team in Berlin is on relays, and he may not be needed anyway.

To send the right message, Blake and the others need to left in JA.

[rudeboy]

Blake should have been especially careful. He just signed a decent contract. I hope he doesn't get dropped. All those guys needed was a plate of green bananas and yellow yams. Then take a b-complex vitamin and they would have all the energy neeeded.

[Sportsfanx1]

I stated earlier that all 5 of them should be left home. I think that is the best move. It will reduce our chances of winning both 4 x 100m relays, but I don't care. We have to send a message.

I agree. If their B samples come back positive for a banned substance, they should all be left home.

Jamaica cannot tolerate such idiocy by its athletes. I don't care what the excuse is -- flu medication, taking supplements. As an athlete if you get the flu you should drink some bush tea, if your stomach is upset drink some ginger tea, feeling down drink some roots. Don't take any pharmocological substance or stimulants ever.

Idiots shoud not run for Jamaica. One (or five) bad sugar apple(s) can spoil the whole bunch.

One love.

CO-SIGNED that.

Plus, Jamaica has to make the best decision for the team. I'm expecting these fools to be watching the World Championships at there home (somehow I doubt they will have any interesting when if finally sinks in that they are not with the team.) What's wrong with drinking a can/bottle of ENSURE? This is what people in medical field mostly prescribe for their patients to help supplement their diets. Do you think...you will find those Stimulants in a widely used supplement that is given to sick patients? NO...for the simple fact.. those stimulants may end up putting the patient at risk for toxicity. These Athletes really need to do their homework, and realize that these things can KILLED THEM!! Caffeine can kill you, can cause too much cardiac stimulating...which could leads to fatal irrigular heart beats, especially athletes. (example of people who just drop dead...and they were healthy as can be).!!

When they runnining their hearts need to contract and relax at a fast rate to keep up with their bodies demands, and some of these things have Vasodilation effect.... which is the opposite of what required. It's just sad that these fools keep putting themselves at risk and to top it off... I think they all know too.

Another thing ....why do they need energy drinks? Fools. Increase you caloric intake to meet your body's demand and that should solve the problem. Just sad.

PS.. I'm so happy that the JAAA is considering barring them from going to Berlin. Even if that's all that require is just a warning. They will sit and think this over for a long time. Who they squandered their dreams of going to Berlin etc!!

[Speedfirst]

Speed, "non-chemically process" would exclude pesticides.

Maybe I should have added organically (sp) grown.

One love.

Okay, I just wanna know that all the bases are covered, or at least an attempt is. Cuz you know that would be an avenue to explore, because when it's not in our site (athlete), you never know what the ingredients are (contaminated) :wink:

[frontrunner]

Speed, "non-chemically process" would exclude pesticides.

Maybe I should have added organically (sp) grown.

One love.

[Speedfirst]

Jamaica cannot tolerate such idiocy by its athletes. I don't care what the excuse is -- flu medication, taking supplements. As an athlete if you get the flu you should drink some bush tea, if your stomach is upset drink some ginger tea, feeling down drink some roots.

How are you so sure that bush tea and roots drink don't have any banned substances?

Very true, those things need as much attention as the others, if full disclosure of the ingredients are unknown.

I am assuming that the athletes will make their own bush tea, ginger tea, and roots from plants/provisions, not buy some commercially available brand. If homemade and grown bush tea/ginger/roots contained substances that are banned by WADA/IAAF then the athletes should not drink them. But then to banned such natural non-chemically processed substances would be ridiculous because "wah Jah bless, no man curse."

One love.

Do they spray insectisides (sp ck)?

[frontrunner]

Jamaica cannot tolerate such idiocy by its athletes. I don't care what the excuse is -- flu medication, taking supplements. As an athlete if you get the flu you should drink some bush tea, if your stomach is upset drink some ginger tea, feeling down drink some roots.

How are you so sure that bush tea and roots drink don't have any banned substances?

Very true, those things need as much attention as the others, if full disclosure of the ingredients are unknown.

I am assuming that the athletes will make their own bush tea, ginger tea, and roots from plants/provisions, not buy some commercially available brand. If homemade and grown bush tea/ginger/roots contained substances that are banned by WADA/IAAF then the athletes should not drink them. But then to ban such natural non-chemically processed substances would be ridiculous because "wah Jah bless, no man curse."

One love.

[toyracer]

Even if the results from the trial were to be annulled, Blake could/should still be selected to represent jamaica in the relays based on his performances before and after the trials.

If what Toyracer saying is THE standard, a "non-participation" omits them from being capable of being added to the team, as an athlete MUST participate in the JAAA Champs, however, with medical exemptions, and other avenues given to athletes in the past, its hard to decipher what these athletes will be classified as, should their results be nullified from the national meet.

Toyracer, please explain this again, because maybe I have gotten this a little mixed as well...

Thanks

Here is the page for the Selection Criteria. http://www.jaaaltd.com/Select_Crit.htm

If they had DQ'd by false starting or running outside their lane, I believe that would still be counted as competing in the meet. So the question boils down to whether a one-meet drug DQ is to be treated as the equivalent of not competing in the meet, while other forms of DQ are treated as having competed.

An interesting point of view. Let me see if I can find any wording that addresses that. My understanding is that a confirmed positive test would lead to the athlete's entry being disqualified; it would be as if the athlete did not run at the National Championships at all.

[knite]

Jamaica cannot tolerate such idiocy by its athletes. I don't care what the excuse is -- flu medication, taking supplements. As an athlete if you get the flu you should drink some bush tea, if your stomach is upset drink some ginger tea, feeling down drink some roots.

How are you so sure that bush tea and roots drink don't have any banned substances?

Very true, those things need as much attention as the others, if full disclosure of the ingredients are unknown.

[sprintblox]

Jamaica cannot tolerate such idiocy by its athletes. I don't care what the excuse is -- flu medication, taking supplements. As an athlete if you get the flu you should drink some bush tea, if your stomach is upset drink some ginger tea, feeling down drink some roots.

How are you so sure that bush tea and roots drink don't have any banned substances?

[frontrunner]

I stated earlier that all 5 of them should be left home. I think that is the best move. It will reduce our chances of winning both 4 x 100m relays, but I don't care. We have to send a message.

I agree. If their B samples come back positive for a banned substance, they should all be left home.

Jamaica cannot tolerate such idiocy by its athletes. I don't care what the excuse is -- flu medication, taking supplements. As an athlete if you get the flu you should drink some bush tea, if your stomach is upset drink some ginger tea, feeling down drink some roots. Don't take any pharmocological substance or stimulants ever.

Idiots shoud not run for Jamaica. One (or five) bad sugar apple(s) can spoil the whole bunch.

One love.

[sprintblox]

Results from Nat. Trials are the basis for selection, not anything else, I have seen where the selection committee have taken another athlete who didn't place top 3 over someone who did, however, the one that was taken, was a seasoned runner, and had been successful for Jamaica many times, however, that was political...

The rules required the top 3 athletes to show fitness leading into the Games, and the one who was taken off the team failed in that aspect. That is why she was also booted from the relay, even though it was not necessary to do that to accommodate the seasoned competitor.

[Tammy_Baby]

Even if the results from the trial were to be annulled, Blake could/should still be selected to represent jamaica in the relays based on his performances before and after the trials.

If what Toyracer saying is THE standard, a "non-participation" omits them from being capable of being added to the team, as an athlete MUST participate in the JAAA Champs, however, with medical exemptions, and other avenues given to athletes in the past, its hard to decipher what these athletes will be classified as, should their results be nullified from the national meet.

Toyracer, please explain this again, because maybe I have gotten this a little mixed as well...

Thanks

Knite, in regards to the section you quoted, then if the results are ommitted, then their participation becomes null and void, hence making them ineligible for participation. Results from Nat. Trials are the basis for selection, not anything else, I have seen where the selection committee have taken another athlete who didn't place top 3 over someone who did, however, the one that was taken, was a seasoned runner, and had been successful for Jamaica many times, however, that was political... but, like the bylaws state, only due to exemptions given by the association prior to Trials, will an athlete have the chance to be selected as part of the team without competing at Trials... There was no exemptions given in this instance, therefore, if the results are ommitted, then they don't qualify