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  • trackjudge
    replied
    Originally posted by 26mi235
    It seems that Holman ran his fastest times as a third, fourth or further back placer. Webb's have generally come while winning (e.g., Paris GL, setting the AR mile, his 800PR, 10,000,...
    That's an interesting point. But note that both of his HSRs came mid-pack (IIRC). Mainly, it seems Webb hasn't been in that many super-fast races -- i.e., many domestic races or unrabbited championships.

    [Off topic but not mentioned in the Monaco m1500, nice 3:32 for Lomong.]

    Leave a comment:


  • exdrake
    replied
    Thanks Ed. Was Centrowitz' hs mile pr top ten at the time?

    Leave a comment:


  • jeremyp
    replied
    Originally posted by 26mi235
    It seems that Holman ran his fastest times as a third, fourth or further back placer. Webb's have generally come while winning (e.g., Paris GL, setting the AR mile, his 800PR, 10,000,...
    Webb took some big scalps and prior to the WC's in 2007 he was expected to medal, as he had beaten Lagat, Baala, and had some great marks (no:1 in 1500/mile), and was undefeated. In his 2007 year, he was superior to Holman's best year.

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  • 26mi235
    replied
    It seems that Holman ran his fastest times as a third, fourth or further back placer. Webb's have generally come while winning (e.g., Paris GL, setting the AR mile, his 800PR, 10,000,...

    Leave a comment:


  • ed gee
    replied
    As a HSer in 1973, Matt ran the 1500 in 3:43.4...PB was 3:36.7 for 1500 in '76 as a 21 yo..his 1500 marks were probably superior to his HS and lifetime mile bests of 4:02.70 and 3:54.94.

    Matt's mile PB was in 1982, when he was 27.


    Originally posted by exdrake
    To Ed Gee:

    If you don't limit it to current top ten hs milers (tho his time may have been top ten in its day?) did/do you think Matt Centrowitz may have pr'd at or past 26 yo? He had long career and may have run a fast 1500/mile (Euro circuit) even after moving up to 5k? I don't know answer...just asking.

    Leave a comment:


  • guruof track
    replied
    Originally posted by Tvarish

    Guru, You are correct in that regard but, at least for me, it is not the fact how much success he has had, but rather how much I think he should have had considering his potential. I know the Track world is fraught with injuries, other competitors, etc. but considering what he did as a high schooler, I think most people would have thought he would have achieved much more than he has. I am not hating on him just stating what I personally believe most people thought he would have accomplished. But, do not fret yet he still has a lot of time left in his career.
    When you say how much you think or thought he would have achieved by now, I assume your talking about medals, because I would call running 1:43, 3:30, and 3:46 MAJOR achievements.


    People always dwell on the negatives about Webb instead of the positives he has accomplished. I dont think we can point to any US middle distance runner who has PRs to match those.

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  • Tvarish
    replied
    Originally posted by guruof track
    I think its goes farther than the Webb is better than you thing. IMO, people being critics are well and fine, but when the critics become self identified experts who have all the answers and start calling people chokers..........that is when I tend to take the route JB took.

    Webb has been our most successful miler to date since Steve Scott, medals or no medals. Since he has been pro he may have had 3 seasons at the MOST totally healthy.

    For all the criticism of Webb, no American born middle distance runner of this decade comes CLOSE to rivaling him.
    Guru, You are correct in that regard but, at least for me, it is not the fact how much success he has had, but rather how much I think he should have had considering his potential. I know the Track world is fraught with injuries, other competitors, etc. but considering what he did as a high schooler, I think most people would have thought he would have achieved much more than he has. I am not hating on him just stating what I personally believe most people thought he would have accomplished. But, do not fret yet he still has a lot of time left in his career.

    Leave a comment:


  • exdrake
    replied
    To Ed Gee:

    If you don't limit it to current top ten hs milers (tho his time may have been top ten in its day?) did/do you think Matt Centrowitz may have pr'd at or past 26 yo? He had long career and may have run a fast 1500/mile (Euro circuit) even after moving up to 5k? I don't know answer...just asking.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeremyp
    replied
    Originally posted by Powell
    Originally posted by jeremyp
    Webb's issues seem to be less physical than mental. A new coach and environment might bring him back.

    The French equivalent of Webb: Baala; has also had extreme ups and downs: PR 3.28.98 in 2003; 4th Sydney; 12th Edmonton; 2d Paris; zilch Athens, Helsinki; Osaka(dq'd); 4th (3d) Beijing . Not ranked in 2004/5, ranked 4th in 2006/7. 6th in 2008. Yet here he is again, with a 3.30 clocking.

    I don't know if their issues are the same, but plenty of French fans counted him out after his failures. Webb is young. Baala is 4 1/2 years older.
    Well, at least he had a few real highs in major championships.
    True! But what a rollercoaster, and that's all I was really trying to say: If he can come back, maybe Webb can do so as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Powell
    replied
    Originally posted by jeremyp
    Webb's issues seem to be less physical than mental. A new coach and environment might bring him back.

    The French equivalent of Webb: Baala; has also had extreme ups and downs: PR 3.28.98 in 2003; 4th Sydney; 12th Edmonton; 2d Paris; zilch Athens, Helsinki; Osaka(dq'd); 4th (3d) Beijing . Not ranked in 2004/5, ranked 4th in 2006/7. 6th in 2008. Yet here he is again, with a 3.30 clocking.

    I don't know if their issues are the same, but plenty of French fans counted him out after his failures. Webb is young. Baala is 4 1/2 years older.
    Well, at least he had a few real highs in major championships.

    Leave a comment:


  • ExCoastRanger
    replied
    One question this topic brings to mind: What would it take for we fans to consider Webb's career "successful?"
    Would a single Olympic/Worlds medal or top-five finish do it?
    A couple of consistent seasons capped with championship finals qualifiers?
    More PRs?
    He has already had some wild successes, of course. National championships and records, victories overseas. Top world marks. Fame and fortune. He's also had some deep frustrations. Peaks and valleys.
    Does he need to do more to live up to the promise projected on him in his prep years?

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by Pego
    Originally posted by tandfman
    Originally posted by ross sez
    JB... I side with you on most things but this has got to be the dumbest post I've seen in awhile (and I've seen this post in many threads). It's an internet forum--of course 99% of the board hasn't done the stuff an athlete has... b/c they're fans, not the athletes.
    ross sez it right.
    Agreed, but...

    I also dislike the screechers applying a "choker" to accomplished athletes, just because they never won "a big one". Their qualifications for such an opinion, to me, are irrelevant.
    I don't disagree.

    I don't think I've never called Webb a choker, but I may have expressed disappointment in the fact that he's never been on an international podium. I think we all feel that he's had the potential to be there, and it's natural to be disappointed that he has not gone as far as we think his talent could have taken him.

    I am certainly not one of those who think it's too late for him to win serious hardware, especially in the absence of a dominant international miler such as El Guerrouj.

    Leave a comment:


  • guruof track
    replied
    I think its goes farther than the Webb is better than you thing. IMO, people being critics are well and fine, but when the critics become self identified experts who have all the answers and start calling people chokers..........that is when I tend to take the route JB took.

    Webb has been our most successful miler to date since Steve Scott, medals or no medals. Since he has been pro he may have had 3 seasons at the MOST totally healthy.

    For all the criticism of Webb, no American born middle distance runner of this decade comes CLOSE to rivaling him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pego
    replied
    Originally posted by tandfman
    Originally posted by ross sez
    JB... I side with you on most things but this has got to be the dumbest post I've seen in awhile (and I've seen this post in many threads). It's an internet forum--of course 99% of the board hasn't done the stuff an athlete has... b/c they're fans, not the athletes.
    ross sez it right.
    Agreed, but...

    I also dislike the screechers applying a "choker" to accomplished athletes, just because they never won "a big one". Their qualifications for such an opinion, to me, are irrelevant.

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by ross sez
    JB... I side with you on most things but this has got to be the dumbest post I've seen in awhile (and I've seen this post in many threads). It's an internet forum--of course 99% of the board hasn't done the stuff an athlete has... b/c they're fans, not the athletes.
    ross sez it right.

    Leave a comment:

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