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What's up with pole vaulting this year?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dukehjsteve
    Originally posted by Marlow
    Originally posted by dukehjsteve
    Can someone provide definitive info on this "rounded crossbar ends" subject ? What was it before ? What is it now ? How is it different from the HJ ?
    The end of the PV crossbar used to be like the HJ bar, square. Now it looks like a flat tire - round on the top, flat on the bottom. If the crossbar is rotated by a jumper brushing it, now it falls off. There used to be a good chance it would stay up because it would simply rotate to another flat side.
    Unless I am losing my mind, your "flat tire" description also matches HJ bars. The entire HJ bar is round, but has "flat tire" sleeves at each end which can be calibrated if and when needed so that the entire bar sits solidly on the standards.
    Steve, I'm with you. The HJ and the PV bar ends changed at the same time. About 6 years ago?

    Sure the pegs are shorter now i the PV. There used to be room for 2 bars on the old pegs. However, the bar still has only one way to roll off.

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    • #17
      I recall enterprising folks even used to take a few wraps of tape around the end of the pegs.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Per Andersen
        Originally posted by dukehjsteve
        Unless I am losing my mind, your "flat tire" description also matches HJ bars. The entire HJ bar is round, but has "flat tire" sleeves at each end which can be calibrated if and when needed so that the entire bar sits solidly on the standards.
        Steve, I'm with you. The HJ and the PV bar ends changed at the same time. About 6 years ago?
        Sure the pegs are shorter now i the PV. There used to be room for 2 bars on the old pegs. However, the bar still has only one way to roll off.
        ??!! The HJ bars we've gotten recently have square ends. Is it a HS thing?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by polevaultpower
          Originally posted by lovetorun
          Polevaultpower...I'm probably showing my ignorance (I'm a distance runner, not a pole vaulter) but when did all those changes happen...or are you just being tongue in cheek?
          Within the past... I dunno 5-6 years (excluding drug testing)? 5.80 jumps have not been a dime a dozen since then.
          But even if we just use the past 5-6 years as a sample and compare the number of pre-August 5.80m+ vaults, the numbers are way down this year. In 2009, up until the end of July there have been just 14 performances at 5.80m or above. In 2008 until the end of July there were 25 vaults above 5.80m, in 2007 there were 27, 2006 - 33, 2005 - 22, 2004 - 27, etc.

          On the women's side, it's more difficult to tell because compared to the men the event is still progressing, but up until July 31 there have been 13 performances at 4.70m+. At this time last year, there had been 27. Even in 2004 there were 14 performances at 4.70m+ before August.

          So during the era of those changes you mentioned above, the performances this year HAVE been below-par compared to the past few years. The only thing that has changed this year compared to previous years is maybe a decrease in prize money, but that applies to all track and field events, yet most of the others haven't had such a poor year.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Marlow
            Originally posted by Per Andersen
            Originally posted by dukehjsteve
            Unless I am losing my mind, your "flat tire" description also matches HJ bars. The entire HJ bar is round, but has "flat tire" sleeves at each end which can be calibrated if and when needed so that the entire bar sits solidly on the standards.
            Steve, I'm with you. The HJ and the PV bar ends changed at the same time. About 6 years ago?
            Sure the pegs are shorter now i the PV. There used to be room for 2 bars on the old pegs. However, the bar still has only one way to roll off.
            ??!! The HJ bars we've gotten recently have square ends. Is it a HS thing?
            I've seen "flat tire" types at both HS and college level. Not that "square" vs. "flat tire" ends makes any difference in the HJ. With no vertical standard to push back against if the bar is hit by the jumper, no HJ bar in the world can flip way up, turn over, and still stay on top. But the "flat tire" HJ ends are all I've ever seen in the last 5 years.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Marlow
              ??!! The HJ bars we've gotten recently have square ends. Is it a HS thing?
              No biggie - it just means that you and your athletes have been cheating for the past few years, and any PBs set with such equipment should be retracted :P

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jon
                Originally posted by Marlow
                ??!! The HJ bars we've gotten recently have square ends. Is it a HS thing?
                No biggie - it just means that you and your athletes have been cheating for the past few years, and any PBs set with such equipment should be retracted :P
                Originally posted by dukehjsteve
                Not that "square" vs. "flat tire" ends makes any difference in the HJ. With no vertical standard to push back against if the bar is hit by the jumper, no HJ bar in the world can flip way up, turn over, and still stay on top.
                So there!!! 8-)

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                • #23
                  Square ends are still perfectly legal for HS, however, some manufacturers are only making the semi-circular ends, so you'll probably see a mix of both (but smart HS coaches put the square ends from their old bars onto their new bars).

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jon
                    Originally posted by polevaultpower
                    Originally posted by lovetorun
                    Polevaultpower...I'm probably showing my ignorance (I'm a distance runner, not a pole vaulter) but when did all those changes happen...or are you just being tongue in cheek?
                    Within the past... I dunno 5-6 years (excluding drug testing)? 5.80 jumps have not been a dime a dozen since then.
                    But even if we just use the past 5-6 years as a sample and compare the number of pre-August 5.80m+ vaults, the numbers are way down this year. In 2009, up until the end of July there have been just 14 performances at 5.80m or above. In 2008 until the end of July there were 25 vaults above 5.80m, in 2007 there were 27, 2006 - 33, 2005 - 22, 2004 - 27, etc.

                    On the women's side, it's more difficult to tell because compared to the men the event is still progressing, but up until July 31 there have been 13 performances at 4.70m+. At this time last year, there had been 27. Even in 2004 there were 14 performances at 4.70m+ before August.

                    So during the era of those changes you mentioned above, the performances this year HAVE been below-par compared to the past few years. The only thing that has changed this year compared to previous years is maybe a decrease in prize money, but that applies to all track and field events, yet most of the others haven't had such a poor year.
                    One, your stats are obviously including indoor marks, which may skew things.

                    It's a post-Olympic year and there are some major players that are either out with injuries (Lukyanenko, Feofanova), have not jumped much this season because of injury (Stuczynski, Walker, Hooker), or have jumped poorly because of injury (Isinbayeva).

                    Also, is it just me, or has it been an unusually wet summer in Europe? It seems like every other major meet I read about, the weather is terrible for vaulting.

                    I agree that Walker, Hooker, and Lavillenie are all jumping fantastic right now, and if the weather is decent there should be some big jumps at Worlds.

                    We won't see any huge jumps from the women if Isi and Stuczynski remain hurt, but Rogowska, Murer, and the other Russian girls are jumping well, and I sure like Silke Spiegelburg's chances for a medal in her home country.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by polevaultpower
                      Originally posted by Jon
                      Originally posted by polevaultpower
                      Originally posted by lovetorun
                      Polevaultpower...I'm probably showing my ignorance (I'm a distance runner, not a pole vaulter) but when did all those changes happen...or are you just being tongue in cheek?
                      Within the past... I dunno 5-6 years (excluding drug testing)? 5.80 jumps have not been a dime a dozen since then.
                      But even if we just use the past 5-6 years as a sample and compare the number of pre-August 5.80m+ vaults, the numbers are way down this year. In 2009, up until the end of July there have been just 14 performances at 5.80m or above. In 2008 until the end of July there were 25 vaults above 5.80m, in 2007 there were 27, 2006 - 33, 2005 - 22, 2004 - 27, etc.

                      On the women's side, it's more difficult to tell because compared to the men the event is still progressing, but up until July 31 there have been 13 performances at 4.70m+. At this time last year, there had been 27. Even in 2004 there were 14 performances at 4.70m+ before August.

                      So during the era of those changes you mentioned above, the performances this year HAVE been below-par compared to the past few years. The only thing that has changed this year compared to previous years is maybe a decrease in prize money, but that applies to all track and field events, yet most of the others haven't had such a poor year.
                      One, your stats are obviously including indoor marks, which may skew things.
                      They're not including indoor marks. And even if it did, I don't know how that would make any difference or skew things.

                      Originally posted by polevaultpower
                      It's a post-Olympic year and there are some major players that are either out with injuries (Lukyanenko, Feofanova), have not jumped much this season because of injury (Stuczynski, Walker, Hooker), or have jumped poorly because of injury (Isinbayeva).

                      Also, is it just me, or has it been an unusually wet summer in Europe? It seems like every other major meet I read about, the weather is terrible for vaulting.
                      These are more accurate reasons than the ones you first came up with. Like you say, hopefully we'll see some better marks in Berlin.

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                      • #26
                        Hey, everyone...it's been interesting reading...hope we will see some high vaulting in Berlin...more hopeful for the men than women.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by polevaultpower
                          Square ends are still perfectly legal for HS, however, some manufacturers are only making the semi-circular ends, so you'll probably see a mix of both (but smart HS coaches put the square ends from their old bars onto their new bars).
                          In other words - US high school results in PV and HJ are not to be taken too seriously.
                          James White for instance, square or semi-circular ends? He is world-listed pretty high.

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                          • #28
                            I did some looking through the iaaf lists for the men for the past few years. This isn't a good year, but most of the past few years have had 15-17 people over 5.80. A couple years had 17 people over 5.80 a huge number of times. There has been at least one other year since 1999 where performances were very weak with about 12 guys over 5.80. In other words, this year sucks but it isn't completely unheard of and there have been some recent years with a lot of great performances.

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