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  • #31
    Originally posted by Zat0pek
    But also remember he has faster 5,000 and 10,000 PRs than Galen Rupp does at this point, not that I expect that to be true much longer. In fact, all of Webb's PRs are faster than Rupp's.
    I am not sure why I should remember this when it is not true. Alan Webb has run 27:34.72 for 10000 meters. Galen Rupp has run 27:33.48. However, this does not detract from your other points.
    As for the discussions regarding Webb's best distance, it would be like arguing what was Said Aouita's best distance. It is difficult to say that 3:29.46 is inferior to 12:58.39. However, Aouita snatched an Olympic and World Championship at 5000 meters, and an indoor title at 3000. He also picked up an Olympic bronze at 800 and a World bronze at 1500. It is nice to have options.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by 26mi235
      Kennedy never ran 3:34 and Tegenkamp will not race at 10,000 for a lot longer than the LetsRun faction would wish. How can you say that an American (other than Lagat) that has gotten closer to a medal (0.03 seconds) than anyone since before Pre is not a 5000 guy with very good (by US standards) 1500?

      As for saying that getting essentially a college soph to run 3:54/13:22 is not a sign of great coaching at 1500/5000. Your comment borders on being preposterous. By the way, you might also look at the other gender for successes as wll (although longer).
      Of course Tegenkamp's primary event is the 5000 at the moment. However, despite dabbling on the shorter side recently his constitution is that of a 5/10 athlete. He could start running the 800 but his fibers, how he responds to training, etc. are clearly on the strength side of things.

      I never said 3:54/13:22 is not due to solid coaching. I said it is not world-class. Training a good college athlete, which is where 3:54/13:22 sits in the grand scheme of things, is much different than training a 3:30/12:50 guy.

      As far as the fairer sex, the only female athletes Jerry has coached to my knowledge are Suzy Favor Hamilton, Sarah Schwald, and now Flanagan. Hamilton never raced, Schwald ran a couple decent indoor races, and the Olympic bronze medalist has been beat by a bunch of nerds since joining. Not saying this is Jerry's fault, there's an adjustment period, but I'm not sure who you'd use as an example of his success with female athletes.

      Do not be confused, I am not saying Jerry is a bad coach. He's actually done quite well. But you're from Wisconsin, so there's some bias there, and there's been a nauseating amount of hype surrounding Team Colorado/Oregon/Arkansas/Wisconsin/North Carolina/Virginia ... um, I mean the Oregon Track Club! Yeah Eugene! Go Pre! Avoid being caught up in the nonsense.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by guruof track
        I'm not saying Webb won't thrive at the 5K distance, but I'm sure himself and more importantly Nike would like to keep the 1500/mile as his premier event.
        You're probably right.
        Those guys are stupid enough not to know how good that 13:10 was at the end of a long season and arrogant enough to impose their will on people who actually spend more time at a track than in a cubicle.

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        • #34
          This is a positive step for Webb. As someone said, 3 of the last 4 seasons ended early, the other ended with some very fast times and a weak showing at the WCs. Clearly there is a coaching issue. The best thing here is that his current coach may have some input which will put Webb at ease and his coach clearly knows how to get Webb to run fast. Now they can put that together with coaches who know how and when to PEAK. Couple that with some excellent facilities and training partners and it could be very good.

          Talent never fades. Webb still has the same talent, but has had some rough years. Salazar and Schumacher will not likely be doing experiments on Webb, they will pull in the knowledge from his current coach and lay out a plan. They will watch his workouts and (hopefully) keep him from over or under training. In response to Schumacher comments, he has proven that he can make guys run fast and most importantly, give them big kicks. Salazar and Schumacher have coached some good athletes, but probably nobody with the talent and range of Webb, but good coaching will elevate any runner. Webb has the speed to kick with anybody on earth. With a solid plan he may become the world beater that he should be. His current coach has coached exactly 1 world class athlete who has consistently failed to perform at the right time. The Nike Oregon folks have a solid history, whether or not it exactly matches the "Webb type".

          Remember that Webb is a multi million dollar investment for Nike. They want to see that investment pay off.
          In the sun with a popsicle, everthing is possible

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Run DMC
            In response to Schumacher comments, he has proven that he can make guys run fast and most importantly, give them big kicks.
            ...
            Remember that Webb is a multi million dollar investment for Nike. They want to see that investment pay off.
            Yeah, Tegenkamp's kick looked great in the heats in Beijing. Same goes for Solinsky last year at the Trials.
            Apparently Schumacher got $300K and a halo when he rolled into Portland, I don't get it.

            Regarding Nike's investment in Webb:
            Of course I agree, as I was the first one to bring this up. Unfortunately, however, Capriotti et al continue to think that because they have a large checkbook they therefore understand track and field and know what is best for all their athletes. It's unfounded arrogance.

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            • #36
              Yeah, Tegenkamp's kick looked great in the heats in Beijing. Same goes for Solinsky last year at the Trials.
              Apparently Schumacher got $300K and a halo when he rolled into Portland, I don't get it.
              I did not say he was the greatest coach ever, but he has had consistently excellent results. He coached multiple NCAA champions both team and individual. Teg was 4th with a big kick in WC 2 years ago. Webb has achieved none of those things. A 4th place WC or OG would be a big improvement for him.

              And Solinsky? Well if Lagat and Dobson had been in the race this year, he would again have finished out of the medals. He is just not as quite talented as Teg, Lagat, and Dobson, and Teg is not as talented as Webb (only Lagat is). Given equal coaching, I know who I would bet on. Right now, Webb has a coaching deficit on these guys.

              This is the new situation and it will likely be an improvement. Maybe there are other coaches that might be better, but I can't think of a situation that would be drastically better than this.
              In the sun with a popsicle, everthing is possible

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Run DMC
                And Solinsky? Well if Lagat and Dobson had been in the race this year, he would again have finished out of the medals.
                If Dobson would've been at USAs this year he probably would've run close to 14:00. Last year was lightning in a bottle, a brief glimpse of promise once shown before fading away in a sadly typical post-Lananna career.

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                • #38
                  I can't argue that many who run for Lananna don't have great pro careers. Dobson made an Olympic team though, despite not setting PRs lately. Ryan Hall is not too shabby either. But is it Lananna's fault if people don't run well after they leave his coaching? By the same token will we blame Coach R for Webb if he does not perform next year or after?

                  I think my point was missed. Webb has off the charts talent. With proper coaching he should be on top of the world. That's assuming it is not a head problem for him. I think he has moved in the right direction and I hope it works for him.
                  In the sun with a popsicle, everthing is possible

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Run DMC
                    I can't argue that many who run for Lananna don't have great pro careers. Dobson made an Olympic team though, despite not setting PRs lately. Ryan Hall is not too shabby either. But is it Lananna's fault if people don't run well after they leave his coaching? By the same token will we blame Coach R for Webb if he does not perform next year or after?

                    I think my point was missed. Webb has off the charts talent. With proper coaching he should be on top of the world. That's assuming it is not a head problem for him. I think he has moved in the right direction and I hope it works for him.
                    Lananna clearly fries his athletes. I could see it with aerobically developed Africans, but when Nintendo-playing white boys are running what turn out to be lifetime bests at age 22 or 23 shortcuts have been taken in order to get Vinny his bonus, long-term repercussions be damned.
                    Hall was lucky that he was often doing his own thing and took some time off from school. Dobson, meanwhile, was doing 12x 1km and running 6:00 pace on his 'easy' days the whole time. Who's to say that Mahon and living at 8000 ft. were the best thing for Dobson, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say sacrificing at the altar of Lananna has played a huge role in his untimely demise.

                    Webb is undoubtedly a huge physical talent but in my opinion, a few hamstring niggles aside, the problem is entirely supraclavicular.

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                    • #40
                      I have a pretty good feeling this is going to be another loooooong Webb thread.

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                      • #41
                        K.I.R., where do you get this information?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Half Miler
                          K.I.R., where do you get this information?
                          I've hung around the sport a bit?

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                          • #43
                            [quote=K.I.R.]
                            Originally posted by "Half Miler":15im1n6b
                            K.I.R., where do you get this information?
                            I've hung around the sport a bit?[/quote:15im1n6b]

                            OK. I guess I was hoping for some details. One of the great benefits of forums like this is anonymity, so I can't expect you to tell me who you are. But I have to say after reading many of your posts I'm impressed with your intimate knowledge of coaches and athletes. Have you worked with Schumacher, Lananna, Mahon, et al?

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                            • #44
                              According to an article on Oregonlive.com, a huge factor in this situation is a sports psychologist named Darren Treasure, whose influence in Salazar's group has increased since Salazar's heart attack. Treasure has already been working with Webb for the past year. Salazar said: "Darren is able to shoulder a lot...that is the only reason this is happening with Alan."
                              Well, one hopes the sports psychologist is worthy of his name.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Half Miler
                                Have you worked with Schumacher, Lananna, Mahon, et al?
                                I've been employed in various settings within the sport of athletics.

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