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¶'09 WC mSP: Christian Cantwell 72-3½ (22.03) WL

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  • #76
    no one's going to call him a "legend" until he throws 22m

    & his slide technique hasn't done it...

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    • #77
      Mr. Majewski awoke at 0530 yesterday. I'd imagine that he wanted to get in a cat nap during the afternoon sometime following his qualification round. Perhaps he never got that rest because he lay awake knowing he'd fail with his technique and *only* land that silver :wink:
      Fire Impossible.

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      • #78
        If he doesn't ever throw 22m and keeps winning medals at major champs he'll still be called a legend. The sport is about competition. There's a long list of people who have thrown and jumped far or run fast but never won medals. We remember the champions. You may personally have some arbitrary 22m line in the sand for legends. Most people draw that line in gold, silver, or bronze.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by eldrick
          no one's going to call him a "legend" until he throws 22
          Mr. "eldrick", I'm reasonably certain that the 37 999 999 other people in Poland already consider him one following his gold medal in Beijing. I'm also more than certain that most of those people don't know how far he put the shot, or how it arrived at its destination --- whether by spin or by glide.

          If he lands on the stands at the next European Championships in Barcelona, he'll have collected medals at all the majors indoors and outdoors and will be of legendary status, a fact which remains true undeterred by your opinion --- however humble it may be.
          Fire Impossible.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by bhall
            If he doesn't ever throw 22m and keeps winning medals at major champs he'll still be called a legend. The sport is about competition. There's a long list of people who have thrown and jumped far or run fast but never won medals. We remember the champions. You may personally have some arbitrary 22m line in the sand for legends. Most people draw that line in gold, silver, or bronze.
            given the recent history of the event, if he keeps winning with mid/high 21s, he's likely to be regarded as a default champ due to a lull in american throwing

            if he's winning in 22+, he's an all-time great

            for now, he got "lucky" in peking & slightly less lucky here, as 21.90+ is almost worthy of an unquestioned win, however your up against

            i doubt he wouda considered himself the number 1 in the event even if he'd won here, as in his "day job" of competing on the circuit, he's had enough experience getting whupped by americans in past throwing 22+ to know his place in the pecking order

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            • #81
              Originally posted by 3
              Originally posted by eldrick
              no one's going to call him a "legend" until he throws 22
              Mr. "eldrick", I'm reasonably certain that the 37 999 999 other people in Poland already consider him one following his gold medal in Beijing...
              err...

              it goes without saying i'm referring to cognoscenti here & not josef smithowski walking in down-town krakow

              i've never even heard whisper of a mention of "legend" or "alltime great" & his name in same paragraph on this board ( until above )

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              • #82
                given the recent history of the event, if he keeps winning with mid/high 21s, he's likely to be regarded as a default champ due to a lull in american throwing
                In my opinion, you seem to disregard one point. Majewski is much more consistant than most American shot puters, and this is *because* he uses the gliding technique. Yes, the athletes, who rotate, can throw further, but they also can bomb totally. That means, their technique has a disadvantage at well. I am sure Dan Taylor and maybe even Reese Hoffa were happy if they had Majewskis consistency.

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                • #83
                  If you look at the all-time list, there have been about as many gliders as spinners among the 22+ meter throwers. Mikhnevich did 22.00 just last year.
                  Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Powell
                    If you look at the all-time list, there have been about as many gliders as spinners among the 22+ meter throwers. Mikhnevich did 22.00 just last year.
                    you'd have to do the average of all of those who've thrown 22m+ & significant difference if say, average differs by at least 10cm

                    you'd also have to look at exact numbers who've done it - if it's about 60/40 in favor of 1 over the other, i'd call that significant

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Neville L.
                      In my opinion, you seem to disregard one point. Majewski is much more consistant than most American shot puters, and this is *because* he uses the gliding technique. Yes, the athletes, who rotate, can throw further, but they also can bomb totally. That means, their technique has a disadvantage at well. I am sure Dan Taylor and maybe even Reese Hoffa were happy if they had Majewskis consistency.
                      american throwers are only after gold - silver or worse is failure

                      i'd much rather prefer a one-off throw of 22m rather than a "guaranteed" mid-21

                      later wins you gold immediately, latter you have to sweat until very last round

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by eldrick
                        given the recent history of the event, if he keeps winning with mid/high 21s, he's likely to be regarded as a default champ due to a lull in american throwing
                        Mr. "eldrick", perhaps you haven't checked the recent history of the event --- or any of its history, especially when it concerns the world championships? Prior to Mr. Cantwell's 22m toss, there had only been 2 other 22m victors since the inception of the IAAF world championships --- a series including 11 other finals and had 6 American winners. The average winning mark has been 21m75, of which the record was set 22 years ago.
                        Fire Impossible.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by 3
                          Mr. "eldrick", perhaps you haven't checked the recent history of the event --- or any of its history, especially when it concerns the world championships? Prior to Mr. Cantwell's 22m toss, there had only been 2 other 22m victors since the inception of the IAAF world championships --- a series including 11 other finals and had 6 American winners. The average winning mark has been 21m75, of which the record was set 22 years ago.
                          the last 5 winners of wc have thrown further than the pole's best here of 21.68

                          as i said, americans after gold, nothing else - an even small possibilty of ~22m is better for them than 21.50 & silver

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                          • #88
                            I am confused. I was under the assumption that anyone considered a medal threat would be going for gold. To come up with *silver or worse* and be considered a *failure* is not quite fathomable.

                            Are you able to find any sources of information where Americans who finished in positions 2 or 3 have described their placings as failure spots? If not, would this not merely be conjecture and not reliable as fact?
                            Fire Impossible.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Check your stats. Majewski threw 21.91 last night.

                              Excellent rationalizations of a silly statement. You should quit while you're behind.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Neville L.
                                In my opinion, you seem to disregard one point. Majewski is much more consistant than most American shot puters, and this is *because* he uses the gliding technique. Yes, the athletes, who rotate, can throw further, but they also can bomb totally. That means, their technique has a disadvantage at well. I am sure Dan Taylor and maybe even Reese Hoffa were happy if they had Majewskis consistency.
                                interestingly, we can try some stats for probability of a big throw from them

                                assuming 1 of the americans comes in at least peak physical shape & it's just about chance of getting a big winning throw ( call it high-21/22-flat/22+ )

                                if in 6 throws ( assuming at least they throw well enough even with a "poor" throw to get in top-6 )

                                1% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.99 )^6 = 5.9%
                                2% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.98 )^6 = 11.4%
                                3% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.97 )^6 = 16.7%
                                4% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.96 )^6 = 21.7%
                                5% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.95 )^6 = 26.5%
                                6% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.94 )^6 = 31.0%
                                7% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.93 )^6 = 35.3%
                                8% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.92 )^6 = 39.4%
                                9% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.91 )^6 = 43.2%
                                10% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.90 )^6 = 46.9%
                                11% chance of a big throw in each of 6 attempts = 1 - ( 0.89 )^6 = 50.3%

                                the consistency only has to be about 1 in 9 ( 11% ) chance of a big ( winning ) throw with each of the 6 attempts to have more than evens chance of having 1 big throw in those 6 attempts

                                i'd take that

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