¶'09 WC m100: Usain Bolt (Jamaica) 9.58 WR

[gh]

this thread has become pointless; so much so that it's beyond salvage. Fini.

[guruof track]

TrainerPhil, are you suggesting his comments base no merits.

[Speedfirst]

nony, I understand that, but in fairness to Francis comments with respect to cleaning up the sport in Jamaica, that woudn't have anything to do with being bitter.

[TrackDaddy]

Wow...Franno put the dirty laundry out in the open.

This is a recipe for disaster for JAA.

Once dissention creeps in then people start turning on each other and dropping names and specifics.

That's what happened with Balco.

The tone makes it sound like drugs are a serious problem in the sport in JA.

Let's all hope this isnt true especially after all the success they've had the last two years.

[TrainerPhil]

Well, there is a long-standing beef between Francis and JAAA exec Donald Quarrie. I'm not entirely sure how the problem has started, but they don't agree on a lot. Francis has always felt that Quarrie influences the JAAA to make things uncomfortable for him.

Politics of course.

But JAAA is in charge. I don't care how good Francis is, he still has to follow the rules set forth by the JAAA if he wants his athletes to compete. Francis is not bigger than Jamaica, but not matter how logical his reasons may seem to some of you, he needs to get in line. Simple as that.

[nony]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/html/20090820T020000-0500_157893_OBS_FRANCIS_BLASTS_JAAA.asp

Stephen Francis own words:

“It doesn’t look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA," Francis added.

“It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they
should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free.”

Francis can help the JAAA tremendously by putting all his athletes on the hot seats and let them show the world that they are drug free and all the braces worn by the top females are just a mere coincidence of getting fast overnight.

Francis is a bitter man, great coach though.

Does he have a reason to be bitter?

The athletes who took the drugs are not running around, they were caught. The coach can't keep an eye on the athletes he trains 24/7. I'm not sure what he's rambling about. He should know better than to give the haters more ammo. The JAAA has given him some reason to be bitter, but it seems as if he's being a little childish. Just more crab ina barrel mentality, as puffy said the our communities are suffering from a disease called bitchassness.

[guruof track]

I don't see how the bitter comment is relevant either. The man has coached the MOST gold medals in Jamaica in this meet. So why would he be bitter. Seems like a level-headed comment to me. Unless he is just jealous of Glen Mills.

You guys make it seem like his statements are just out-rights lies and have bearings. I think that he hits on some interesting points.

[Speedfirst]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/html/20090820T020000-0500_157893_OBS_FRANCIS_BLASTS_JAAA.asp

Stephen Francis own words:

“It doesn’t look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA," Francis added.

“It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they
should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free.”

Francis can help the JAAA tremendously by putting all his athletes on the hot seats and let them show the world that they are drug free and all the braces worn by the top females are just a mere coincidence of getting fast overnight.

Francis is a bitter man, great coach though.

Does he have a reason to be bitter?

[guruof track]

I'm dumbfounded by the clear accusations he made. Imagine if John Smith said that. :shock:

[track_expert]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/html/20090820T020000-0500_157893_OBS_FRANCIS_BLASTS_JAAA.asp

Stephen Francis own words:

“It doesn’t look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA," Francis added.

“It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they
should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free.”

Francis can help the JAAA tremendously by putting all his athletes on the hot seats and let them show the world that they are drug free and all the braces worn by the top females are just a mere coincidence of getting fast overnight.

Francis is a bitter man, great coach though.

ya he's definitely doing his job right considering the number of medals won.

[Speedfirst]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/html/20090820T020000-0500_157893_OBS_FRANCIS_BLASTS_JAAA.asp

Stephen Francis own words:

“It doesn’t look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA," Francis added.

“It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they
should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free.”

Francis can help the JAAA tremendously by putting all his athletes on the hot seats and let them show the world that they are drug free and all the braces worn by the top females are just a mere coincidence of getting fast overnight.

How is this flying under the radar? If it were Americans, this would be front page headlines :shock:

[nony]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/html/20090820T020000-0500_157893_OBS_FRANCIS_BLASTS_JAAA.asp

Stephen Francis own words:

“It doesn’t look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA," Francis added.

“It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they
should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free.”

Francis can help the JAAA tremendously by putting all his athletes on the hot seats and let them show the world that they are drug free and all the braces worn by the top females are just a mere coincidence of getting fast overnight.

Francis is a bitter man, great coach though.

[track_expert]

You guys need to take this to another thread.. severely off topic.. I don't even know what you two are talking about.. :lol: who cares.

I've been to college and grad school. I have a couple of degrees. But eldrick, your posts are so full of technical jargon that it quickly becomes difficult to read and follow. Heck, I had to dust off my webster's dictionary to figure out what you were saying. Maybe you should think about "dumming" it down a bit so those of us who don't have doctorates or haven't taught quantitative psychology at an Ivy League school can understand.

In all honesty, you guys really need to continue this conversation on another thread.

Too bad none of the top coaches got Ph.Ds... you think glen mills or stephen francis even know what quantitative psychology is :lol:

[TrainerPhil]

You guys need to take this to another thread.. severely off topic.. I don't even know what you two are talking about.. :lol: who cares.

I've been to college and grad school. I have a couple of degrees. But eldrick, your posts are so full of technical jargon that it quickly becomes difficult to read and follow. Heck, I had to dust off my webster's dictionary to figure out what you were saying. Maybe you should think about "dumming" it down a bit so those of us who don't have doctorates or haven't taught quantitative psychology at an Ivy League school can understand.

In all honesty, you guys really need to continue this conversation on another thread.

[track_expert]

PJ himself stated in the thread at the CF boards about Tyson not doing speed work... in fact... Tyson ran a new personal best in 120m before running that 19.58!

much as i respect pj - he is not part of team-tyson & didn't observe his training for the weeks previously

as for this 120m pb

where is your gaurantee that

- it was accurately HT'ed ?
- it wasn't run with benefit of a +5m/s wind

you haven't been very long in this game if you take 2nd hand info as gospel

Take your conceps elsewhere

no

you are the one offering little

heed your own advice

[quote:b02s9rhn]What established coaches? Drummond? You consider him a established coach? No one says no scientific guys etc, but i can almost guarantee that if you handed Bolt over to one your scientific buddies, Bolt would NOT be running any faster than a 9.8 the following season.

drummond, the great start's coach who coudn't get tyson below 6.45 split for initial 1y he had him - to challenge safa's times he needed to get him at 6.40

most definitely, a different start coach & perhaps one with more scientific knowledge wouda had a shot at getting him closer to 6.40

The interview was from the winter of 08, thats essentially how their GPP looked like. If you are saying other wise.. then Franno is a liar and lied in the interview?

no

i wanted programme from late '06/early '07 NOT from late '08 ( as in '09 off that he has run nowhere close to his pb )

the coaching programme may have been changed in meantime depending on safa's physical condition/wishes

What evidence do you have he tried to peak for Zurich? I would like to see it right now. And the fact he ran a 9.77 earlier on a slower track in gateshead as well as a heavy weights session, that run was DEFINITELY impressive equally and the same.

you clearly no nothing about the history of this sport

in non-championship years, zurich is the unofficial world championship of the year

if he didn't try to peak for it - provide proof

as for gateshead being a slow track, you clearly are ignorant of the issues

there was a long discussion here about it & conclusion was it was considered a slow track because it invariably had poor weather & no wr holders running in a small meet

recently more money was provided for meet, bigger names attracted & they got good weather for once

conclusion : track is fast but never given opportunity to show it before

And learn to understand the concepts behind his late peaking...

1) Runs his best after a series of races (mainly being 18)
2) Gets injured too much and doesnt get in the required high int. work
3) Doesnt get in the fast races needed

1) is nonsense

what difference does it make if he ran 2 races or 5 in april when it comes around to august & this 18 ?

does his muscle memory remember if he did 2 or 5 races over 3/12 before ?

3) please remove this - it's laughable

if he can't get in fast races as the then wr holder, who on earth can ???

In other words, the required stimulus has lacked before the 07 and 08 championships. Why else would he never run faster than a 9.9 in a championship?

so you are obviously proposing that 2/52 before a champs, he shoud reproduce his champs programme by running 4x100 ( hard ) & 2 legs of a relay & perhaps even a 200 ?

can you suggest any other reasons he doesn't run faster than 9.9 in a champs ???

His aim IS!! to peak then, but your body is not a robot and will not simply listen to you telling it to peak. The championships in 07/08 served as what he needed to finish it off and peak

see above

find one respected poster here who agrees with this & i'll stop laughing

Learn to understand what i say, and what supercompensation is, then you will know how he missed his peak twice and peaked later than required thus ran the times he did.

see above

And what you say about Tyson's weight... DO YOU talk to Tyson daily? Do you check him on a scale? Do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to say someone would run a 9.65 had he not gained any weight when you yourself do not know if Tyson gained any weight at all?

principles of nutrition as stated earlier based on his reduced training & laws of physics which the univers runs by

if you are ignorant of these that is not my problem - you can go learn them

And him doing little training, once again ridiculous. The effect of not training showed for him last year when he f*cked up the olympics... this year he ran a 9.71, supposedly doing little speed work and little training... :roll: im sure... after running 800/1500m workouts. :wink:

i'm afraid you have no concept of the degree of injury

last year he was sprawled on the track in trials 200 with it - it was a season ending injury under normal circmustances but he had to keep trying - with no training for weeks after

this year his injury is less severe, allowing him to train & race, but nowhere as devastating as last year[/quote:b02s9rhn]

You dont trust PJ? Do you trust Drummond then?

http://charliefrancis.com/community/sho ... ostcount=2

Drummond had told PJ this, I see you're calling your "friend" and Drummond liars.

And it doesnt matter if its HTed, where else would his 120 pb come from in the past? They're smart enough to know if its a pb and its HT therefore the past times ran were HTed.

And if its wind aided, so what? you're still getting the benefit of increased velocity and thus a better neural imprint.

Sorry I made a mistake, I mean PRE 2008 season, last year not this year. And last year he ran his 9.72?

Gateshead is a polytan surface, the same surface installed at U of T in toronto where Bolt ran the 10.0, if you are saying its a fast track... go learn about the surfaces.

Franno has said in the past he doesnt believe in a proper taper, and given his heavy racing schedule, do you mind explaining how he would go about peaking in zurich?

On top of that, I also know Franno said he only tries to peaks for major championships and nothing else.

His race pattern and peaking after a certain number of races is not non sense. You clearly do not understand what stimulus is and the required stimulus needed from races for asafa is much more than Tyson for example. The adaptation process is longer.

Im not saying powell should destroy himself however you clearly dont understand peaking. Until the different components :acceleration, max.V, SE havent been fully maximized, the volume hasnt dropped and the muscle tone isnt correct, one cant simply peak because its a champonship.

Powell never ran faster than a 9.9 and never showed 9.7 form (except it was a good possibility this year had it not been for his groin) because he hadnt peaked properly.

Powell's SE did not ever look maximized and nor did his Max.V in previous championships, but further on that... he hadnt gotten in the required stimulus from races. Hard to understand?

And would you not agree getting injured and NOT getting in the planned speed work does set you back a bit? IF its the same as not being injured, why even bother doing the extra speed work? Take it easy and you'll peak the same correct?

Your friend PJ and Charlie Francis both agree, in fact Charlie has gone on many times about this.

And what you say about Powell killing himself then freshening up, in fact that is how it would work... powell's agent noted a heavy training block during the time he ran in london, good evidence he was going through a heavy regime before freshening up and looking good for Berlin.

Many many sprinters have noted, such as Ben Johnson in the past, that after a heavy racing schedule, they have run personal bests or reached higher speeds, etc.


And as for Tyson's weight, once again you have NO evidence of what he did. You dont know what his training was and the food he ate, you're simply assuming he sat on a chair eating big macs.