BASIC

[RamGoat]

This is the adjusted times thread..

I have posted a link to the T&F news adjusted times list.

Men
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archiv ... justed.pdf

Women
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archiv ... justed.pdf

Lists are on this page: http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archive/

[ATK]

some times were screwed...
powell 9.78 +0.0 into 9.79?
fredericks 9.86 -.04 remains 9.86?

[eldrick]

wind helps by ~ 0.10s for +2m/s & handicaps by ~ same for -2m/s

altitude helps by ~ 0.02s for 500m altitude ( rieti where powell ran 9.78 ( 0 wind ) is at ~ 400m )

it all works out in the end

[RamGoat]

Eldrik.. what happend to the 9.71 basic time that you extrapolated from the Rome race? hehe :wink:

[eldrick]

no

i did not claim 9.71 basic for rome - go read it

he ran 9.77 there = 9.79 basic & that was "controlled" last 50 with safa gaining, then tyson "kicking" again

worth ~ 0.05s from gap closing = ~ 9.74 basic if he'd run it flat-out last 1/2 of race

this was prior to groin injury, which lost him training & ability to improve from rome to berlin

i wouda expected him to improve this to ~ 9.70 basic by berlin

instead he ran 9.71 = 9.75/9.76 basic in berlin which was intrinsically inferior to what his rome run represented flat-out

he went backwards between rome to berlin...

[dakota]

What could Usain Bolt run on the moon?

[RamGoat]

no

i did not claim 9.71 basic for rome - go read it

he ran 9.77 there = 9.79 basic & that was "controlled" last 50 with safa gaining, then tyson "kicking" again

worth ~ 0.05s from gap closing = ~ 9.74 basic if he'd run it flat-out last 1/2 of race

this was prior to groin injury, which lost him training & ability to improve from rome to berlin

i wouda expected him to improve this to ~ 9.70 basic by berlin

instead he ran 9.71 = 9.75/9.76 basic in berlin which was intrinsically inferior to what his rome run represented flat-out

he went backwards between rome to berlin...

Bolt's chest beating in zero wind is worth 0.05 seconds, as proven by the splits.. Tyson did nothing remotely close to that in Rome. He ran flat out.

Compare his Rome race and the Berlin Race. The man was flat out in Both.

[eldrick]

unfortunately

you seem to have "forgotten" that bolt's peking antics were over last 10 - 15m with head-turning/arm-gesturing antics drawing attention to a significant over-deceleration which wouda been far less noticeable/commented on without such histrionics in a simple shutdown

whilst

tyson's controlled finish in rome represented a similar numerical slowing over a distance of last 50 - 60m

it's not unexpected such a subtlety escaped you...

[RamGoat]

"Did you know that Asafa Powell could have run 9.68 in the Lusanne 9.72 race?

He slowed at 50m - 60m."

.................................................. ........................ I can't make a statement like that, when Asafa never visibly eased up.

Tyson Gay never slowed any at all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tOip48vxyA

You have some very thick rose tinted glasses.

Now, watch the Head-on camera angle of the race and tell me with a straight face, what time in the video did Tyson Gay ease down...

That is a time between 1:21 and 1:50 in the video.. tell me the point where Gay shutdown.. e.g 1: xx and state what did you see that indicated that....that is all I want..I need to see what you base your argument on. FACTS!!

[eldrick]

clearly subtleties of sprinting are lost on you

for the 4th time, in all their races together, the gap between tyson & safa has never reduced in safa's favor when behind or increased when he has been ahead

tyson runs the last 50m better than safa ( even though safa used to beat him mostly - due to his superior intial 60m )

the gap at 50m shrinks visually ( & that means in region of 50cm to be visually obvious & ~ 0.05s at their speeds ) which it never has before & then tyson increases it again before safa eases off

this diminution after 50m has never occured before & therefore from hx of their races means tyson was not at full pelt at that point

when he sensed safa drawing closer he moved further ahead before safa eased off

there are no head-turns/screen glances/etc to go by, you go by the hx of the 2 racers & subtle observation

if this is lost on you, don't waste my time further on this

[RamGoat]

You are one of the most ignorant persons I ever met.. :lol: Even now you can't give me time in the video... YOU saw the "shutdown" and you can't even tell me the point in the video.

Tyson Gay has 6 senses now? :lol:

Listen To Ato Bolden's commentary.
Compare the distance between Gay and other runners not named Asafa.
Asafa closed then eased off.. that's all that happened. If Gay was in the 9.72 race he wouldn't be in front to create a closing gap... So your theory is rubbish. Pure speculations. You are assuming that Asafa has not top end speed, which is not very wise to suggest.

Well my observations proved me right.. You were the one wrong. You need to defend your statement with FACTS not speculation. The only reasoning you have is that Asafa closed... that doesn't mean anything to anybody.

Tyson Gay is 9.76 basic.. So there ya go.

Good day.

[eldrick]

i'm afraid your observational skills leave a lot to be required

now, learn from one of the most discerning sprint observers it has been my pleasure to read :

http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discus ... 130#567130

So your response is that Gay actually out accelerated Powell from 10-40, but Powell held his acceleration longer than a fully running Gay and hit his top speed later than Gay? So your saying that suddenly Powell is the finisher and Gay has become the starter? For all intents purposes, I believe that to be impossible. Do you think Tyson even hit top speed? To some extent, your response actually proves my point.

Here is what I'm suggesting: Gay was told to run a full, 100% drive phase. I have a feeling, however, that he was yelled at that once he got on top of his hips, that he was to take his foot off the gas (relatively, not to shut it down, just to not go 100% to the line). Gay was not to respond in any way to whatever happened after 50 meters. So, if Powell (or anyone else) gained or passed him, he was not to respond. His actual race was over after 50. He was to work and focus entirely on his first half and once finished, to cruise at some unknown percentage or level.

And thats exactly what I think he did. I think he ran a rather good drive phase, established a lead on Powell in that drive phase, and then he settled in and ran without pressing to the line. I believe that AFTER the 60m and typical "top speed reached" area, Powell was slowly gaining on Gay, meaning it was a maintanence thing, not a accleration thing, and Gay probably felt it but had already commited to settling in per coaches rules. I'm assuming Gay's coach patted him on the back for listening and executing as told.

I think Powell ran full go for 70 meters and then shut it down in the last 25/30. I think Powell saw that he was gaining on Gay, was satisified with how his ankle felt, but knew he wasn't going to pass Gay before the line and knew it didn't even matter if he did/could pass him, so after enjoying a brief period of gaining on Gay he shut down. In essence, both of their races were more practice than anything else.

I have no real evidence for any of this, this is just what I think I'm seeing. The only real evidence I think I have is that after 60 meters I think its quite impossible for Powell to actually gain ground (if he is behind) or distance himself from (if he is ahead) Gay, unless there are other issues, i.e poorly executed run by Gay (9.77 is not that), or injury. There is a lot of evidence for that statement due to previous history (2007 World Champs, 2006 race where Powell ran 9.77 and Gay ran 9.8x, etc.) as well as style of runner (Gay, the great finisher/ Powell, the great starter).

Starters don't really ever pass finishers. Think Leonard Scott, Jon Drummond, Bruny Surin. Basically, this conversation is like saying that Bruny Surin got beat out of the blocks by Donovan Bailey and gained on Bailey after 50 meters. That doesn't happen outside of injury.

Starters can beat finishers, but only because they get the start they need, leave the finisher behind, and maintain well enough to hold off the finisher (or the finisher gets stuck and never really gets on their hips, which isn't something that happens often to experienced top sprinters like Gay and Bolt). But if the starter gets beat out of the blocks, they are not going to pass or gain on the finisher. Certainly not at this level, almost never at the college level, and seldom at the high school level.

[RamGoat]

So you are basically saying it is impossible for Powell to catch up to Tyson Gay? And the only way to explain it is that Tyson Gay made a mistake or shutdown? :P

I see.... yup..

Too many "I believes" and "I have no real evidence for any of this"

I don't operate like that.

I want you to bring me facts.. That is all I ask. No speculations. Just cold hard facts/evidence..

The closest thing you have is Youtube (and there is no evidence there that he shutdown). The other source of evidence is TG's splits or asking TG himself.

Remember I am the one who predicted 9.76 basic. It's right on the money. My observational skills were backed up by the table above.

[eldrick]

i'm afraid your analytical skills are nowhere in the league of the above poster

i suggest you read it 1/2 dozen times to see what a "proper" analysis of the situation was

as for your prediction of tyson's basic, it is fundamentally flawed as he was running with a significant groin injury

reappraise that in that light & try again

[jpaule]

Re: BASIC

This is the adjusted times thread..

I have posted a link to the T&F news adjusted times list.

Men
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archiv ... justed.pdf

Women
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archiv ... justed.pdf

Lists are on this page: http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archive/

Whoever compiled the "basics" adjustments didn't calculate the adjustments that now need to be made for Global Warming. Therefore all lists are invalid :lol: :lol:
Doesn't everyone see how absurd this topic is? A WR is a WR until someone breaks it.