The USA 4x1 Debacle

[Marlow]

Let's do some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, i.e., where do we go from here?

IMO:

1. Doug Logan must personally take responsibilty for this. Of course it is not his fault, but by taking personal responsibility, he can fully appreciate what must be done by HIM to rectify the situation. If heads need to roll, HE rolls them. If results are not forthcoming, HE makes changes. The Captain always goes down with the ship. He paid high LIP-service to instituting change, but when London rolled around, it was business as usual. Of course that was a complicated situation, but this is a complicated problem and needs a thorough re-booting, nay, a reformatting of the hard drive. Maybe all new hardware and software!

2. I think the glass is clearing half-EMPTY now. Our previous successes were SERENDIPITY - sheer blind luck (not that we don't always have the raw speed). Even if my last statement is false, we should ASSUME it's true, so the necessary paradigm shift can take place.

3. We need athletes who will commit to not only the practice time, but a MINIMUM of 3 (THREE) high level meets outside of the USA. You can NOT simulate big meet pressure anywhere but in big meets.

4. Barring injury we can't 'save' athletes for the Final. Part of the necessary chemistry is running with the people who will be there in the Final.

This current situation would be embarrassing for a high school team. You can sit there and blame everything on just bad timing, bad luck, complex personnel (and personal) issues, but what will that get you? Right back where we are now. This is NOT Rocket Science. We can do this. As a very minimum we need to try and we simply have NOT. Boo on us.

[ATK]

Do you really think the coach should take most of the blame for this? Baton handoffs are pretty simple to understand. These athletes have been doing them all their life. I'm pretty sure the coach does thier job to the fullest during the practice time, but if a mistake is made in the race, the coach wasn't the one holding the baton, the athletes are.

[Marlow]

Do you really think the coach should take most of the blame for this? Baton handoffs are pretty simple to understand. These athletes have been doing them all their life. I'm pretty sure the coach does thier job to the fullest during the practice time, but if a mistake is made in the race, the coach wasn't the one holding the baton, the athletes are.

Who said it was the coach's fault? I'm sure s/he did the best s/he could under the (unacceptable) circumstances.

[bman]

Do you really think the coach should take most of the blame for this? Baton handoffs are pretty simple to understand. These athletes have been doing them all their life. I'm pretty sure the coach does thier job to the fullest during the practice time, but if a mistake is made in the race, the coach wasn't the one holding the baton, the athletes are.

Who said it was the coach's fault? I'm sure s/he did the best s/he could under the (unacceptable) circumstances.

Well yes and no. I don't think Crawford and Doc just decided on the fly to try and stretch the zone like that... I'm sure there is an explanation of some kid but the result is what it is. They tried to stretch the zone and got caught taking it too far. The mistake itself is up to the runners but IMO they should not have been put in that position in the heat.

[ATK]

Do you really think the coach should take most of the blame for this? Baton handoffs are pretty simple to understand. These athletes have been doing them all their life. I'm pretty sure the coach does thier job to the fullest during the practice time, but if a mistake is made in the race, the coach wasn't the one holding the baton, the athletes are.

Who said it was the coach's fault? I'm sure s/he did the best s/he could under the (unacceptable) circumstances.

Sorry I should have said Doug instead of the coaches, but im pretty sure get my point. Whoever was actually involved in the actual failed handoff are the only ones to blame, no one else.

[Speedfirst]

IMO...run your A team in both the round and finals, they have worked more and if they make it to the finals, you can still work in your alternates in practice, just in case someone over sleeps for the finals. :lol:


Seriously go with your top team, live and die with them the whole way, more work for them, more quality work at that.

[Marlow]

Do you really think the coach should take most of the blame for this? Baton handoffs are pretty simple to understand. These athletes have been doing them all their life. I'm pretty sure the coach does thier job to the fullest during the practice time, but if a mistake is made in the race, the coach wasn't the one holding the baton, the athletes are.

Who said it was the coach's fault? I'm sure s/he did the best s/he could under the (unacceptable) circumstances.

Sorry I should have said Doug instead of the coaches, but im pretty sure get my point. Whoever was actually involved in the actual failed handoff are the only ones to blame, no one else.

If you don't give a student the opportunity to go to school, it's the student's fault he failed?

[ATK]

Sorry I should have said Doug instead of the coaches, but im pretty sure get my point. Whoever was actually involved in the actual failed handoff are the only ones to blame, no one else.

If you don't give a student the opportunity to go to school, it's the student's fault he failed?

Seriously? These are Elite athletes were talking about not high school kids. They all are experienced and know and have been taught over and over again the exact rules and proper way to execute a legal hand off. The teachers are not in the race, the athletes are.

[TrackDaddy]

I'm blaming the men's snafu on the Brits :roll: .

Have one little revolutionary war...and bam.

Things haven't been the sane since we declared our independence.

And USATF are to blame for the women.

Should a rookie have to make two passes in the semi of their first ever big international meet?

What difference did it make who ran which leg in a semi?

The kid should've been on anchor. And I'm NOT saying it was anybody in particular's fault.

[expat]

I'm blaming the men's snafu on the Brits :roll: .

Have one little revolutionary war...and bam.

Clearly the US team was driving on the wrong side of the road.

Speaking as one born and raised British, I think what the Brit officials did was not cricket (nice old-fashioned Brit term for unsportsmanlike, especially when following the letter of the law). And leaving Chambers out was weird, at this stage -- they've had a long time to work on the personal issues and it really doesn't seem they've tried. But congratulations to the athletes, who did themselves proud.

[Marlow]

Seriously? These are Elite athletes were talking about not high school kids. They all are experienced and know and have been taught over and over again the exact rules and proper way to execute a legal hand off. The teachers are not in the race, the athletes are.

Individual knowledge and skill is irrelevant. Every relay team is different. You have to practice the timing for each leg over and over and over, especially in real races, repeatedly. They never did that. Even when our relay teams manage not to drop the baton, there are always some ugly exchanges. We've just made up for that in the past with blinding speed. No more.

[ATK]

Individual knowledge and skill is irrelevant. Every relay team is different. You have to practice the timing for each leg over and over and over, especially in real races, repeatedly. They never did that. Even when our relay teams manage not to drop the baton, there are always some ugly exchanges. We've just made up for that in the past with blinding speed. No more.

Anyone can teach them how to pass the baton, down to the smallest details and timing, but when it comes down to it if the athlete does not use his own skill to apply what he has learned during the handoff, he/she is the sole person to blame. These guys are not programed robots. They actually have to think for themselves when they are on the track...

If your in class and you are taught everything that is going to be on a test, and you fail the test, is the teacher at fault?

[malmo]

Re: The USA 4x1 Debacle

...same ole self-righteous blather...

[jpaule]

If my answer to the problem is ??????, isn't it more correct than usatf's solution simply because I am being honest.

[Marlow]

Re: The USA 4x1 Debacle

same ole self-righteous blather

Oh, I see Mr. Canker Q. Civility is creeping around. Thanks for the high-brow remark. :roll:

Back on topic: all a good relay team needs is some good old-fashioned trial & error. What seems to be the correct take-off mark and take-off speed works completely differently in the real-world with fast opponents putting pressure on you. The ONLY way to prepare is in battle, preferably at lower stakes than a global championship.