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  • #46
    Originally posted by guruof track
    Originally posted by Daisy
    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
    Franno issue an inferred threat to JAA about other athletes doping in Jamaica.
    Do you have the exact quote and the context? When did he say this?
    http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/h ... S_JAAA.asp
    Francis' comments were in reply to JAAA who plan to sanction members of the MVP Track Club who missed the mandatory pre-championship camp.

    Francis replied to JAAA, and Aris specifically:
    The sport has changed a lot since the time that he has been boss of this sport in Jamaica and I don't want to issue any challenges, but I think that what we need to really do is to find out how we can. I mean it doesn't look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA. It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free. That is what they need to be doing
    Is he trying to start a civil war? He seems to be trying to piss off as many people as possible, not just JAAA.

    With regard to whether his athletes should have attended the pre-championship camp.
    It's a matter of philosophies. Most of what I do is either new to or foreign to the traditionalists, a lot of whom are in the JAAA. They don't understand the importance of coaching, they don't understand the importance of judging scientific calculations of quantities of work and that kind of stuff, and that is a lot of the reason why we end up clashing so much. I believe that if I don't stick to my guns, my charges are not going to perform well and I believe I have evidence of that in Osaka and, to a lesser extent, last year in Beijing and so to me it's usually the question of do you, for a peaceful life, bow to the JAAA's dictates and the athletes don't perform or do you try and challenge them and if they are allowed to participate know that you'll get good performances, and it's something that I hope we don't have to go through over and over again
    This reminds me of Coe going off into his private suite away from the Olympic village in Moscow, so I guess Peter Coe would have supported Francis on this front. But give me a break with regard to the "scientific calculations of quantities of work". I think he rates himself a little too highly.

    Just out of interest, what is his evidence from "Osaka and, to a lesser extent, last year in Beijing" that pre-championship team camp is detrimental to performance. This sounds anecdotal.

    Comment


    • #47
      Pego, it was WAY more to the situation than what your presenting.

      Comment


      • #48
        I like VC and I think she is a great athlete; however I think she is trying to have a division in sport for her country. You can see she is not happy with some of her colleagues from last year.

        The difference between last year and this championship is that the coaches made the right decision and they nailed the G.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Daisy
          Originally posted by guruof track
          Originally posted by Daisy
          Originally posted by TrackDaddy
          Franno issue an inferred threat to JAA about other athletes doping in Jamaica.
          Do you have the exact quote and the context? When did he say this?
          http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sports/h ... S_JAAA.asp
          Francis' comments were in reply to JAAA who plan to sanction members of the MVP Track Club who missed the mandatory pre-championship camp.

          Francis replied to JAAA, and Aris specifically:
          The sport has changed a lot since the time that he has been boss of this sport in Jamaica and I don't want to issue any challenges, but I think that what we need to really do is to find out how we can. I mean it doesn't look good for you to be victimising these athletes while the ones who took the drugs are running around and their coaches and so on being supported by the JAAA. It is stink all over the world and the JAAA needs to understand that what they should be doing is trying to find out how to get the sport in Jamaica drug free. That is what they need to be doing
          Is he trying to start a civil war? He seems to be trying to piss off as many people as possible, not just JAAA.

          With regard to whether his athletes should have attended the pre-championship camp.
          [quote:2hvt8n0a]It's a matter of philosophies. Most of what I do is either new to or foreign to the traditionalists, a lot of whom are in the JAAA. They don't understand the importance of coaching, they don't understand the importance of judging scientific calculations of quantities of work and that kind of stuff, and that is a lot of the reason why we end up clashing so much. I believe that if I don't stick to my guns, my charges are not going to perform well and I believe I have evidence of that in Osaka and, to a lesser extent, last year in Beijing and so to me it's usually the question of do you, for a peaceful life, bow to the JAAA's dictates and the athletes don't perform or do you try and challenge them and if they are allowed to participate know that you'll get good performances, and it's something that I hope we don't have to go through over and over again
          This reminds me of Coe going off into his private suite away from the Olympic village in Moscow, so I guess Peter Coe would have supported Francis on this front. But give me a break with regard to the "scientific calculations of quantities of work". I think he rates himself a little too highly.

          Just out of interest, what is his evidence from "Osaka and, to a lesser extent, last year in Beijing" that pre-championship team camp is detrimental to performance. This sounds anecdotal.[/quote:2hvt8n0a]

          This man is really staring to piss off everyone.He is proving everyday that he is a big trouble maker.HE NEEDS TO GET AN ISLAND AND BRING MVP THERE,AND START A NEW COUNTRY "MVP".

          Comment


          • #50
            It's simple to me. JAAA wa wrong in training her for one leg and changing it up on her at the last minute. You can't blame VCB for that. However, I dare say that if the US was in that final we would have lost if VCB stood by her guns and either (a) did in fact run because we would be smoked by Jeter on anchor or (b) if VCB didn't run because we would be two legs down on the US big time.

            Comment


            • #51
              I am oh so worried and terribly upset about all this, although I am a bit more worried about my golf score this morning, and what I'm going to have for dinner tonight.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by guruof track
                Pego, it was WAY more to the situation than what your presenting.
                No doubt, what I present is a lot simplified version. Every complex situation is judged in its simplified form. Regardless of the background, coaches determine the order of the relay. Team players accept their assignment, primadonas don't. Veronica may have had solid grounds to request the anchor, but the coaches determined that in the best interest of the team, she should run the curve.
                Sometimes, a star is benched, sometimes a star has to guard the opposing player, instead of scoring points/goals. Clash of personalities can wait until after the game is over. Then, everybody can second guess.
                "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                by Thomas Henry Huxley

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by t_monk
                  It's simple to me. JAAA wa wrong in training her for one leg and changing it up on her at the last minute. You can't blame VCB for that. However, I dare say that if the US was in that final we would have lost if VCB stood by her guns and either (a) did in fact run because we would be smoked by Jeter on anchor or (b) if VCB didn't run because we would be two legs down on the US big time.
                  Asafa was not at the camp neither and it did not create a problem for the men's team. Again if it is not broken don't fix it.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TrackDaddy

                    If she's angry enough... she may be in a different uniform.
                    I'm sure Bahrain or Qatar would pony up some $$ for VCB.

                    Just not sure what her uniform would entail...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Pego
                      Originally posted by guruof track
                      Pego, it was WAY more to the situation than what your presenting.
                      No doubt, what I present is a lot simplified version. Every complex situation is judged in its simplified form. Regardless of the background, coaches determine the order of the relay. Team players accept their assignment, primadonas don't. Veronica may have had solid grounds to request the anchor, but the coaches determined that in the best interest of the team, she should run the curve.
                      Sometimes, a star is benched, sometimes a star has to guard the opposing player, instead of scoring points/goals. Clash of personalities can wait until after the game is over. Then, everybody can second guess.
                      The coaches did decided the order at the MANDATORY camp in which VCB attended. She never requesed the anchor, the coaches PUT her there. Seems like she played by THEIR rules and was played at the last minute.

                      She even put off seeing her therapist to attend that 'mandatory' camp. The decision seems like a fly by the seat of your pants decision.

                      I'm amazed that VCB is being villified.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        [quote=guruof track]
                        Originally posted by Pego
                        Originally posted by "guruof track":th1ybzz1
                        Pego, it was WAY more to the situation than what your presenting.
                        No doubt, what I present is a lot simplified version. Every complex situation is judged in its simplified form. Regardless of the background, coaches determine the order of the relay. Team players accept their assignment, primadonas don't. Veronica may have had solid grounds to request the anchor, but the coaches determined that in the best interest of the team, she should run the curve.
                        Sometimes, a star is benched, sometimes a star has to guard the opposing player, instead of scoring points/goals. Clash of personalities can wait until after the game is over. Then, everybody can second guess.
                        The coaches did decided the order at the MANDATORY camp in which VCB attended. She never requesed the anchor, the coaches PUT her there. Seems like she played by THEIR rules and was played at the last minute.

                        She even put off seeing her therapist to attend that 'mandatory' camp. The decision seems like a fly by the seat of your pants decision.

                        I'm amazed that VCB is being villified.[/quote:th1ybzz1]

                        If, what you are saying here, is correct, that indeed changes the situation significantly.
                        Let me add, though. Even if the circumstances forced the coaches to change the order at the last moment, a team player would accept it. Wouldn't you?
                        "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                        by Thomas Henry Huxley

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          [quote=guruof track]
                          Originally posted by Pego
                          Originally posted by "guruof track":2dlc5xzh
                          Pego, it was WAY more to the situation than what your presenting.
                          No doubt, what I present is a lot simplified version. Every complex situation is judged in its simplified form. Regardless of the background, coaches determine the order of the relay. Team players accept their assignment, primadonas don't. Veronica may have had solid grounds to request the anchor, but the coaches determined that in the best interest of the team, she should run the curve.
                          Sometimes, a star is benched, sometimes a star has to guard the opposing player, instead of scoring points/goals. Clash of personalities can wait until after the game is over. Then, everybody can second guess.
                          The coaches did decided the order at the MANDATORY camp in which VCB attended. Seems like she played by THEIR rules and was played at the last minute.

                          I'm amazed that VCB is being villified.[/quote:2dlc5xzh]

                          Mandatory camp was not verified until the last hour for one and there was nothing in writing unfortunately that stated that the camp was mandatory, just some emails sent out (something VCB's coach was slightly upset about seeing that he found out about it when VCB was going through fan mail). If you don't have it in writing that the camp is not mandatory, especially when it has always been in writing before, it can be concluded by persons that maybe the JAAA is changing things up and the camp is therefore not mandatory anymore. Thats the camp situation...

                          In terms of VCB being villified, I agree that this is really a raw deal for her because she was completely justifiable in her argument. It is clear that the JAAA is trying to find someone to blame and the only person they can blame other than themself is VCB and for the mere reason that they led her to believe she was anchoring and then 1 1/2 hours before the finals told her that she has no choice but to run the 3rd or 1st leg.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            If I thought I'd do more harm than good, I do exactly what VCB did. If she fumbled that baton..............imagine the outrage. She was put in a lose lose situation by the coaches. And she complied at EVERY step. Then declined when they notified her on short notice.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Pego
                              Even if the circumstances forced the coaches to change the order at the last moment, a team player would accept it. Wouldn't you?
                              Depends on the circumstances. If the coaches are making last minute decisions based on which external coach (I'm speculating Francis) shouts the loudest then there is a problem.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by t_monk

                                Mandatory camp was not verified until the last hour for one and there was nothing in writing unfortunately that stated that the camp was mandatory, just some emails sent out (something VCB's coach was slightly upset about seeing that he found out about it when VCB was going through fan mail). If you don't have it in writing that the camp is not mandatory, especially when it has always been in writing before, it can be concluded by persons that maybe the JAAA is changing things up and the camp is therefore not mandatory anymore. Thats the camp situation...

                                In terms of VCB being villified, I agree that this is really a raw deal for her because she was completely justifiable in her argument. It is clear that the JAAA is trying to find someone to blame and the only person they can blame other than themself is VCB and for the mere reason that they led her to believe she was anchoring and then 1 1/2 hours before the finals told her that she has no choice but to run the 3rd or 1st leg.
                                Tmonk I appreciate your dialogue.

                                But I have seen information that says otherwise on the reporting of the mandaotry camp. Plus the JAAA threaten to leave MVP out because they skipped the camp, only through IAAF intervention did they get reinstated. Seems like the camp was pretty mandatory to me, especially if you are willing to bar Olympic Gold medalist from competing. I'm just saying

                                The more and more I think about this situation, the more I think its something terribly wrong going on. Not sure what, but it just feels REALLY weird how all this went down.

                                Comment

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