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Baton Passing 101

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Speedfirst
    Here is where it's helpful, getting the stick around and qualifying.
    So you practice being 'not fast'! Hmmmm. Novel concept. So counter-intuitive!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Marlow
      Originally posted by Speedfirst
      Here is where it's helpful, getting the stick around and qualifying.
      So you practice being 'not fast'! Hmmmm. Novel concept. So counter-intuitive!
      Never said not running fast, I said under control at the exchange, not nearly the same as not fast. We see where what the status quo has gotten them.
      on the road

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      • #18
        Originally posted by lonewolf
        Valid points, jazz, but I think I made the concession that I do not believe a lot is lost if a runner is feels he/she cannot carry in left hand. A right to right, while I do not consider it the most efficient, is not fatal. It is the right to left that concerns me.
        In my experience, if the right to left hand shift is made on the first stride after receiving is practiced, it becomes automatic, there is no loss of initial momentum and minimal risk of dropping. I certainly do not condone hand change after leaving the passing zone.
        And, runners do not have to run the entire leg on the outside of the lane, just veer right for the handoff. Incoming has to go someplace if overtaking outgoing and better than stepping on his/her heels or putting on the brakes..
        I thought I understood you but maybe not. What I'm saying is:
        • first leg - right hand
          second leg - left hand
          third leg - right hand
          anchor - left hand
        I believe what you're saying is:
        • first leg - left hand
          second leg - right hand switch to left hand
          third leg - right hand switch to left hand
          anchor - right hand
        And I believe your reasoning is that some people are uncomfortable receiving the baton in their left hand. Do I understand you correctly?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Speedfirst
          Originally posted by Marlow
          Originally posted by Speedfirst
          Here is where it's helpful, getting the stick around and qualifying.
          So you practice being 'not fast'! Hmmmm. Novel concept. So counter-intuitive!
          Never said not running fast, I said under control at the exchange, not nearly the same as not fast. We see where what the status quo has gotten them.
          The French men of the early 90's set the international standard for baton exchanges and there was slowing down through the zone for those guys. Jamaica could go mid-36 with exchanges like this.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: baton passing 101

            Originally posted by Rustyjaguar
            Some good points. however, you want your leadoff to run to the inside of the lane with the baton in their right hand. The 2nd leg runner will run to the outside of their lane a little to receive the baton in the left hand. Do not switch hands ever. Too much risks. The reason the 2nd and anchor legs run to the outside alittle gives the leadoff and 3rd legs a little room in case the first pass is missed and they won't trip over each other aka Anderson and Muna. Leadoff right hand /inside lane . 2nd left hand / outer part of lane. 3rd right hand / inside of lane. Anchor left hand/ outer part of lane. Never teach switching baton. Too many risks.
            1000% Agree!!!!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by jazzcyclist
              I have a problem with the second and third legs switching hands with the baton. It's bound to slow you a little and it increases the chances of a dropped baton. Furthermore, your method has the first leg running on the outside of the lane instead of the inside of the lane, which increases the distance run.

              One of the most common things I see go wrong is the incoming runner missing the target on the initial try. That's what happened with Anderson and Lee on Saturday. As a matter of fact Anderson missed the target on her first two tries, and after that Lee started reaching for the baton. The whole time Anderson was closing the gap on Lee until at the end, she was almost beside her and having to slow down. I think what Anderson should have done after she missed the target the first time is grab Lee's wrist with her right hand to steady the target. Some may think this is crazy but I've seen quite a few people do this successfully over the years after missing the target on the first one or two attempts.

              Often times, the outgoing runner can sense that something is wrong because they can feel the baton brush their hand or arm, and it's human nature for the outgoing runner to start reaching for the baton when they can feel the incoming runner is having problems hitting the target. Ideally, the outgoing runner should resist the impulse to start reaching for the baton and keep the target as steady as possible, but that a lot easier said that done when the adrenaline is pumping and the fans are cheering. I've seen a few runners who can remain calm under those circumstances, but it seems that most can't resist the urge to start reaching for the baton, and once they start doing that, it makes it that much more difficult for the incoming runner to find the target.

              There's nothing you can do in practice to recreate a real race atmosphere. In practice the incoming runner is bound to be more accurate and that outgoing runner is bound to be steadier, but if you also practiced this "grab-the-wrist" technique, you'll be prepared for those championship race situations when you fail to connect on your first one or two tries.
              1000% Agree!!!!

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              • #22
                Can I register a copyright for the title: 'BATON PASSING FOR DUMMIES'?

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                • #23
                  Like Speed, I believe the problem is practice.
                  Not enough repetitions between the people that'r actually going to run.
                  Somebody on another post asked me why I thought a relay camp would help.
                  ...... :? :roll: :? :roll: :? DUHHHH!!!!
                  If they watched Saturday, they know why.
                  We keep proving that speed alone aint gonna get us on the podium. I think there isnt enough emphasis being put on relay practice, and we've been taking the fact that we're fast for granted. We've gota start being nerds in our approach to baton exchanges. Weve been spoiled by our own success at the sprints and assumed we'd just roll over everybody without attention to detail. Thing is, we're NOT the fastest country anymore.
                  WE GOTTA WORK ON IT NOW!!!!!! The damn Japanese team can run 38.3!!!
                  You dont see them in any open sprint finals. They have decent speed. But no where near what we have. But they have great sticks, and thats why their time is what it is.
                  Practice makes perfect.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Perhaps USATF was a little hasty in getting rid of the Relay Program.

                    While it probably could've been tweak'd, I believe it exposed a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't receive this type of consideration to the expectations of the National coaching staff (particularly the relay coaches). I believe the folks who underwent this process became familiar with those expectations so when they actually made a National Team they knew what was expected of them. A lot of our current names who made the last couple of Nationals Teams (as well as the Olympic Team) got some great experience out of that program.

                    The question now is the current hit/miss structure we're currently operating under doesn't seem to be working. What will the new paradigm be? How do we get people familiar with the ways our relays are supposed to work when they're spread out all over the country? I believe this is these are the questions that need to be addressed and answered in order to come up with a concrete policy on establishing relays and leaving the politicking on who runs what out of the process. National Team Coaches (or whatever the current policy is) should be establishing the relay order...NOT agents or proxies.

                    Just my two cents.... :wink:

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: baton passing 101

                      Originally posted by Rustyjaguar
                      Some good points. however, you want your leadoff to run to the inside of the lane with the baton in their right hand. The 2nd leg runner will run to the outside of their lane a little to receive the baton in the left hand. Do not switch hands ever. Too much risks. The reason the 2nd and anchor legs run to the outside alittle gives the leadoff and 3rd legs a little room in case the first pass is missed and they won't trip over each other aka Anderson and Muna. Leadoff right hand /inside lane . 2nd left hand / outer part of lane. 3rd right hand / inside of lane. Anchor left hand/ outer part of lane. Never teach switching baton. Too many risks.
                      Another good plan, rusty, no quarrel from me although I do not share your apprehension about an immediate hand switch. Either way will work. I would accomodate the hand preference of the individual runners. The main theme of my sermon is: improve/perfect departure, upsweep pass, near hand to near hand at maximum speed.
                      What makes me cringe is right to left, or vice versa, from wrong side of lane with outgoing running looking back with body contorted doing the windshield wiper.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Speed City

                        Issue a copy of Bud Winters Jet Sprint Relay Pass to all athletes & coaches.
                        Tom Hyland:
                        "squack and wineturtle get it"

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: baton passing 101

                          Originally posted by lonewolf
                          What makes me cringe is right to left, or vice versa, from wrong side of lane with outgoing running looking back with body contorted doing the windshield wiper.
                          I'm in 100% agreement with Rusty, but I still don't know what you mean when you say right to left and left to right makes you cringe? What I say, and what Rusty is saying is that the lead-off and third legs should run with the baton exclusively in their right hand and place it in the outgoing runner's left hand. The second leg should carry the baton exclusively in his/her left hand and place it in the outgoing runner's right hand. What's wrong with that? The windshield wiper movement is caused when the two runners fail to connect when expected and the outgoing runner panics and starts reaching for the baton.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I don't know or didn't notice what kind of passes they use now, but for most of the time the USSR and East Germany were giving us fits (70's/80's), they used underhand passes. True, we beat them most of the time (even the women) but that was mainly because out anchors were much superior to theirs (except when Borzov beat us). Many times they would go into the 3rd exchange ahead or no worse than even. The US may also have used them as underhand passes were quite common back then. One of the classic coments from this early era ('64 I believe) was when a USSR runner quipped, "All you have is Hayes". Our retort was : "That's all we need".

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              "In relay races of 4x100m and 4x200m, members of a team other
                              than the first athlete may commence running not more than 10m
                              outside the take-over zone (see Rule 170.2). A distinctive mark shall
                              be made in each lane to denote this extended limit."

                              "Each take-over zone shall be 20m long of which the scratch line is
                              the centre. The zones shall start and finish at the edges of the zone
                              lines nearest the start line in the running direction." IAAF RULE 170
                              Should have Known better... you are 100% right Jazzy. Should have qouted it the way you said it but a closing Bolt is a hard Missile to hit.

                              But Crawford and Patton as pros forgot as well, so I can't be too hard on myself.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                ok so i didnt read all the posts, but if this is "101", I was taught in Jr. High on the 4x100 never put your hand back until you are sure you are in the zone (doc patton). if the guy runs you over, you didnt take off soon enough and are going to flub it anyway. now... if you take off too soon, youll be out of the zone before he gets there. Its not an exact science but the error made by the men was pretty riduculus when you apply thie "101" principle

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