Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

[lovetorun]

Aside from the debaucle of a top runner being pushed and falling to the track in the stretch run, I thought the women's 1500m in Berlin was a bit surprising and frankly disappointing.

Admittedly there is a USA bias in my feeling as I thought our ladies would run faster and even place higher...although if someone would have ask me a few months ago if I would be pleased with 3rd, 5th and 6th for three ladies in the final I would have said yes!

I guess I thought Anna Willard with her excellent speed in those two sub 2:00 800m, and steeple strength would have been able to at least medal if not win that race. But I don't criticize her at all...I think I understand that her season was too long. Too long to go through 3 rounds and still have any zip in the third.And that is a subject for a whole new thread (again).

[CookyMonzta]

Re: Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

Aside from the debaucle of a top runner being pushed and falling to the track in the stretch run, I thought the women's 1500m in Berlin was a bit surprising and frankly disappointing.

Admittedly there is a USA bias in my feeling as I thought our ladies would run faster and even place higher...although if someone would have ask me a few months ago if I would be pleased with 3rd, 5th and 6th for three ladies in the final I would have said yes!

I guess I thought Anna Willard with her excellent speed in those two sub 2:00 800m, and steeple strength would have been able to at least medal if not win that race. But I don't criticize her at all...I think I understand that her season was too long. Too long to go through 3 rounds and still have any zip in the third.And that is a subject for a whole new thread (again).

Not the first time the winner needed only a 4:03 to win a World Championship. In the 2000 Olympics it took a 4:05 to win. In 1997 a 4:04 was enough to win. At the 1995 indoor championships a 4:12 won.

[Frans Rutten]

Re: Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

Aside from the debaucle of a top runner being pushed and falling to the track in the stretch run, I thought the women's 1500m in Berlin was a bit surprising and frankly disappointing.

Admittedly there is a USA bias in my feeling as I thought our ladies would run faster and even place higher...although if someone would have ask me a few months ago if I would be pleased with 3rd, 5th and 6th for three ladies in the final I would have said yes!

I guess I thought Anna Willard with her excellent speed in those two sub 2:00 800m, and steeple strength would have been able to at least medal if not win that race. But I don't criticize her at all...I think I understand that her season was too long. Too long to go through 3 rounds and still have any zip in the third.And that is a subject for a whole new thread (again).

Not the first time the winner needed only a 4:03 to win a World Championship. In the 2000 Olympics it took a 4:05 to win. In 1997 a 4:04 was enough to win. At the 1995 indoor championships a 4:12 won.

This was obviously a negative split race. The 2nd half was about 10s faster disregarding the fly start.

The 2nd half was in essence a 800m race with a first lap of 62,24s and a second lap pace of 61,32s, although of cause the "800m race" wasn't concluded. All in all back-to-back 800m races if you want of 2:15 and 2:04.

The time might be disappointing for some viewers, but I reckon that not only did these 1500m Final female runners look bright, but they are also clean. Ohne Gewähr, heisst auf Deutsch. . Or would you rather see someone winning with "800m splits" of 2:15 and 1:58 ?

[CookyMonzta]

Re: Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

Aside from the debaucle of a top runner being pushed and falling to the track in the stretch run, I thought the women's 1500m in Berlin was a bit surprising and frankly disappointing.

Admittedly there is a USA bias in my feeling as I thought our ladies would run faster and even place higher...although if someone would have ask me a few months ago if I would be pleased with 3rd, 5th and 6th for three ladies in the final I would have said yes!

I guess I thought Anna Willard with her excellent speed in those two sub 2:00 800m, and steeple strength would have been able to at least medal if not win that race. But I don't criticize her at all...I think I understand that her season was too long. Too long to go through 3 rounds and still have any zip in the third.And that is a subject for a whole new thread (again).

Not the first time the winner needed only a 4:03 to win a World Championship. In the 2000 Olympics it took a 4:05 to win. In 1997 a 4:04 was enough to win. At the 1995 indoor championships a 4:12 won.

This was obviously a negative split race. The 2nd half was about 10s faster disregarding the fly start.

The 2nd half was in essence a 800m race with a first lap of 62,24s and a second lap pace of 61,32s, although of cause the "800m race" wasn't concluded. All in all back-to-back 800m races if you want of 2:15 and 2:04.

The time might be disappointing for some viewers, but I reckon that not only did these 1500m Final female runners look bright, but they are also clean. Ohne Gewähr, heisst auf Deutsch. . Or would you rather see someone winning with "800m splits" of 2:15 and 1:58 ?

In the U.S., Alan Webb won a regional (or was it state?) HS mile race in 4:07 in 2001, running 2:14+ for the first half and 1:52+ for the second half.

[gh]

Re: Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

Aside from the debaucle of a top runner being pushed and falling to the track in the stretch run, I thought the women's 1500m in Berlin was a bit surprising and frankly disappointing.....

Why (to use Marlow's phrasing) "marks snobs" are frequently disappointed.

Learn to appreciate head-to-head racing for what it is, ignoring the clock, and I think your enjoyment of the sport will be enhanced. (Took me years to come to grips with that concept, but ever since I did, my appreciation for the sport has increased manifold.)

[rasb]

Well said, gh. I am always astounded when some choose to measure a race, particularly a mid. or distance race, by the finishing times. Leading in these situations, without a rabbit of course, is a risk. And leading hard, unless you are clearly the superior runner in the field is a bigger risk. Thus it becomes tactics "uber alles". Personally, I find this style of racing much more interesting that just another rabbited race on the circuit.

[odelltrclan]

We have to hope that people get out of these statistical analyses in order to enjoy races or our sport will die. What will happen when Bolt is gone and his marks are out of touch?

I loved the final. I always love these distance finals. In my opinion they are far better than faster races with rabbits. They are tactical and even if they are a bit slower, the drama and finishes are far more entertaining!!!!!

Every race for men & women in the WC was fantastic to watch 1,500; 5,000; 10,000. I would far rather watch races like that when you have no idea what is going to happen until the last lap.

It is the racing that should be fun, not looking at the clock wondering if what I saw was worthy enough to get excited from a time standpoint.

[STL_Runner]

Re: Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

Why (to use Marlow's phrasing) "marks snobs" are frequently disappointed.

They must have been awfully disappointed with the 10K finish in Sydney. Geb finished almost a minute behind his PR!

[DJ_Expanium]

I always love these distance finals. In my opinion they are far better than faster races with rabbits. They are tactical and even if they are a bit slower, the drama and finishes are far more entertaining!!!!!

Every race for men & women in the WC was fantastic to watch 1,500; 5,000; 10,000. I would far rather watch races like that when you have no idea what is going to happen until the last lap.

It is the racing that should be fun, not looking at the clock wondering if what I saw was worthy enough to get excited from a time standpoint.

I agree with you there along with the women's 3000m SC and how it unfolded in the 150m. The 1500, I thought that Wurth-Thomas was going to push the pace from last 600-700m but she got pushed to the back. That would have spread it out more and may have prevented the elbow incident as well.

[Alan Shank]

I thought the W 5000 was a disappointing race, not because they barely broke 15, but because nobody showed an iota of initiative. As each lap went by, I thought somebody would do something to change the pace, as Abeylegesse probably would have done, had she been in the race, but everyone just waited for the last lap. In 2007, the race was similar, and Defar won easily, but Defar is not the 2007 version, as we saw in the 10K. Still, it looked like her race with 200 to go, but, as with Linet Masai in the 10K, Cheruyiot has been working on her finishing speed.

BTW, I rarely make predictions, but before the W 1500 final I told Peter Rule that there would be at least one Spanish medal, as I was impressed with both Rodriguez and Fernandez in the rounds, and the Spanish runners have a way of coming right for the majors and finishing well. I was right for about 1/2 hour, until the DQ came up. Of course, the DQ was correct, but I wonder where she would have finished had she waited for a gap to open up instead of creating one out of Burka.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA

[jpaule]

Men and women's championships races from 1500 on up are usually the same, you can do something else more interesting llike taking the trash out until the last lap.

[lovetorun]

Just to clarify...I agree with gh and all the others who chimed in that the competition, the race itself, regardless of time, is the most interesting aspect of the race. I think what I was really expressing (and obviously didn't do it very well) is that I thought Anna Willard would have placed high and been more competitive in the race, such as it was. She has the 800m speed, and presumably the steeple strength...so the race, in my view ,was made perfect for her success...and I surmised that her long season fatigue may have been the main reason she wasn't a factor in the race.

[rgjp]

I suspect that all of the women in that field are capable of sub 2:00 800's and I also suspect that they have a good strength background. Otherwise, they wouldn't be amongst the top 12 in the world toeing the line.

Willard's performances to date really aren't that "special" with regard to her speed or strength background. Over racing, however, would definitely have an impact on how an athlete handles the rounds at worlds.

[rasb]

Men and women's championships races from 1500 on up are usually the same, you can do something else more interesting llike taking the trash out until the last lap.

Wow ! What an ignorant attitude....please allow me to try and enlighten you.
In the distance events, there is this variable called "tactics". This does not apply in the other track/field events, so if that is your background, you can be excused for not understanding. Each athlete, who is good enough, and in some cases lucky enough, to make the Final, is trying to work out their strategy for finishing as highly as possible in the Final. How that plays out is a complex set of situations, that every athlete in the event is doing their best to react to. And the final results, regardless of time and place, are what each athlete was able to bring to the table on that day. If that is somehow less interesting to you than taking out the trash, well, it takes all kinds to make the world.

[jeremyp]

Re: Who thought 4:03.74 would win?

Aside from the debaucle of a top runner being pushed and falling to the track in the stretch run, I thought the women's 1500m in Berlin was a bit surprising and frankly disappointing.....

Why (to use Marlow's phrasing) "marks snobs" are frequently disappointed.

Learn to appreciate head-to-head racing for what it is, ignoring the clock, and I think your enjoyment of the sport will be enhanced. (Took me years to come to grips with that concept, but ever since I did, my appreciation for the sport has increased manifold.)

Got to agree gh. Often I don't even know what the time was until I check back later. The last laps of these races are a thing of complexity, fever pitch excitement, high anxiety. I spend hours afterwards picking apart the races on Tivo. I used to be a stat freak, but now I just love to watch the strategy unfold.