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Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce


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  • Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

    Less impressed today. I'm not sure if it's because of the results or the ho-hum coverage. Bad news for US 1500 hopes. Neither SF-H nor AW looked impressive in their finishes (AW @ 3K). Toomey, on the other hand, looked like she was cruising, but the pace lagged early, so hard to tell if she can stand the faster pace at WCi. I'm now officially a Nieto fan after watching his enthusism. Stringfellow looked good too. Stacy is Stacy and hearing her talking about bigger poles is encouraging. That's what women have to do to get to 5m. Did I miss LG's big throw or did they not even show it? Never saw Cantwell throw either, boo!

  • #2
    Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

    Another bad night for US distance running. It is getting to depressing to watch these meets now.

    We may have to wait until 2020 for the next Steve Scott or Bob Kennedy. If you told someone back in 1982 that the best US distance runners would be winning the 1500meter national title in 3:42 they would laugh at you.

    There needs to be a round table discussion on what ails US distance running. This is the kind of topic runnersworld should be tackling. It is certainly better than those "my friend fred's 4 hour marathon" articles they publish.

    Berryhill, and Sage have been especially poor this indoor season. Since Berryhill ran a 3:36.48 last summer his poor showing have been most surprising.

    Only the US 10k runners seem to be performing well.


    • #3
      Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

      Fyi the race yesterday was won in 3:40 not 3:42. In 1982, when the meet was still open, the U.S. men couldn't even beat the Irish boys for their own national title! They only managed a mile win 4 times in the 80's and apart from 1985 it was won in the 3:57 - 4:00 range.
      Also note the U.S. indoor record for the 1500 is 3:38 and Myers yesterday won in 3:40 in an unrabitted race.


      • #4
        Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

        I wouldn t want to see your Americans come up with another Steve Scott, because if your "new" Steve Scott followed the same pattern as the previous one, settled on to the world scene, broke the mile AR and showed international championship hope, he would set a record that your guys wouldn t touch for 20 MORE years... that would be 2 ARs in 40 years!

        The round table discussion doesn t have to be initiated by RW... sponsors can take on this subject. Ask NIKE if they get the same value out of sponsoring some of the US distance runners as they do other distance runners around the globe. If they want the biggest bang for their buck, they can create a NIKE INTERNATIONAL training base where NIKE-sponsored athletes can train, learn, grow, develop and reach more of their potential than they may outside of that group. The athletes can keep their coaches - who, in turn, would also learn from other high-level coaches and positively impact future generations.

        Team USA, FT and other regional groups have the idea... but it would be terrific if athletes from all countries had a chance to train together over a longer time period, race together and compete against each other.

        I think some of the focus would be less on being the best in your country; it would be on being the best on your team. Teamwork will give many more athletes the opportunity to reach their potential, and when that is realized, give the USA and other countries better athletes, faster times and stronger championship presence.


        • #5
          Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

          >There needs to be a round table discussion on what ails US distance

          Paging malmo...


          • #6
            Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

            < Did I miss LG's big throw or did they not even show it? Never saw Cantwell throw either, boo!>

            You didn't miss anything (you rarely do :-)) They simply did not show it. Other than the women pole vault, there was one long jump, one high jump (or was the high jump from Saturday?), a couple of triple jumps of women. Horrid!
            "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
            by Thomas Henry Huxley


            • #7
              Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

              I agree Webb's lack of a sprint finish was discouraging.

              I assume he's been doing a ton of base and strength work, with little concern for the speed phase.

              We shall see in July.

              Hamilton and Teter and Webb are all in the same boat....let's give then a chance before burying them before July even rolls around


              • #8
                Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

                I will violate my own no-Webb policy by observing that he had absolutely nothing in that 3000. He struggles to stay with a pace (even a modest one) and then is dumped like a ton of bricks when the closing sprint begins. If this is the future of American running, we're sunk.


                • #9
                  Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

                  I assume he's been
                  >doing a ton of base and strength work, with little concern for the speed

                  As someone else said somewhere else, this argument is a non-starter. Everyone is in the same boat. That isn't a comment on Webb-just the argument, which is used constantly this time of year for any number of runners.


                  • #10
                    Re: Scott lightyears ahead of today's US milers

                    At least Steve Scott was competitive with the world's best runners. Today's US milers are only able to compete in North America.

                    There is no US miler able to even come close to Steve Scott today. Heck, most of them are barely able to break 3:55.

                    Steve Scott, Some Statistics:
                    8 Sub 3:50 miles
                    136 sub four minute miles (world record)

                    In many respects Scott was better than Jim Ryun in that he was able to maintain a consistency over a longer period of time. Scott was ranked in the international top ten 11 straight times, which is another record.

                    Steve Scott was a genius.

                    In the days of Steve Scott we hoped for medals. Today we just hope one of our 1500 meter runners get to the finals.

                    I could give you more Scott statistics, but I think I made my point.


                    • #11
                      Re: Scott lightyears ahead of today's US milers

                      Oh come on. I'm a big Scott fan and respect everything he did. But he was NOT better than Ryun. Scott had a longer career, of course, but he wasn't better. No one who paid attention to the sport in 1965-66-67 (and, yes, even '68) can forget how ASTONISHINGLY great Ryun was. On the historical scale, it's not even close...


                      • #12
                        Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

                        lunn was as discouraging as well on saturday..

                        I would have expected webb to go with lincoln when the pace heated up.

                        if he can't regain his sprint finish...then, success will never come...

                        let's see what outdoors brings.


                        • #13
                          Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

                          here's a perfectly innocent question, no malice intended, but . . . if Webb can't do better than that now, does he really have time enough to fix himself and be a 3:35 1500 runner by the Trials (not that it will take that to make the team)? I'm just afraid that we are already done for the season since we have no breakout runners thus far. My understanding of distance training (imperfect at best) is that you would need to 90% there by now to be competitive in summer. I just remember runners doing really fast early times and saying that they were still in base training with no sharpening. If you can't do better (which Lincoln HAS!) now, that might be a big problem.


                          • #14
                            Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce


                            I do say the 3k at Boston was a bad sign for Webb, particularly the lack of being able to accelerate.

                            The earlier results from xc and the earleir mile reperesented positives.

                            The BIG question is:

                            has he permanently lost that ability to accelerate OR was the 3k a bad race, just like Lunn failed to be properly poised to unleash his kick in the 1500...

                            what was Webb's training the week before...was he training though the 3k...

                            I think there are mixed signals when it comes to judging webb..some of us thought a 3:54 mile would be possible, based on the indoor mile....

                            it that closer to the truth..still in a trials environment, the last furious 200 meters needs a gear he presently HAS NOT displayed...

                            will he or won't he...?? I don;t know...


                            • #15
                              Re: Night 2 @ USATF with the Deuce

                              Some have mentioned elsewhere that Webb looks 40. Perhaps that is his problem and that he really is a masters runner now and when he was in high school he was only LYING about his age. That certainly would explain his downfall in recent years.

                              Larry Rawson should use his superb investigative skills and get to the bottom of this story.