'09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

[malmo]

Now that the usual suspects trashed the last thread. Let's try to start all over.

1 Kenenisa Bekele [ETH] ETH 12:52.32 20
2 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi [KEN] KEN 12:55.03 16
3 Dathan Ritzenhein [USA] USA 12:56.27 14
4 Vincent Kiprop Chepkok [KEN] KEN 12:58.17 12
5 Moses Ndiema Kipsiro [UGA] UGA 12:59.27 10
6 Joseph Ebuya [KEN] KEN 13:00.22 8
7 Moses Ndiema Masai [KEN] KEN 13:06.16 6
8 Silas Kipruto [KEN] KEN 13:09.08 4
9 Leonard Patrick Komon [KEN] KEN 13:17.43 3
10 Micah Kipkemboi Kogo [KEN] KEN 13:18.57 3

Some serious scalps he took down. It this one race enough to get him a top ten world ranking in both the 5k and 10k. I'm thinking it's going to be close.

[SQUACKEE]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

Now that the usual suspects trashed the last thread. Let's try to start all over.

:lol: :lol:

[malmo]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

Can you for once in your freaking life participate in a thread?

[Daisy]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

Is this one race enough to get him a top ten world ranking in both the 5k and 10k.

Given his sixth in the 10K I'd say yes. Is this really his only 5k this year?

[malmo]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

Is this one race enough to get him a top ten world ranking in both the 5k and 10k.

Given his sixth in the 10K I'd say yes. Is this really his only 5k this year?

Yes. Though I supposed the usual message board muggers will claim his time trial in St Moritz counts as a race.

i really think that the one single race in Zurich should be enough to pip him into the top ten.

For your edification. Ritzenhein's performance confirms what you should already know intuitively -- his best distances are 3000-5000m, and his excellence tapers off as the distances get longer.

IAAF scoring tables for top Americans.

[Daisy]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

i really think that the one single race in Zurich should be enough to pip him into the top ten.

There must be precedent for this for runners that concentrate on 5000 but then drop a really impressive time their one outing at 10K. I'm guessing that is the more common scenario, rather than the 10K specialist running a single 5000.

For your edification. Ritzenhein's performance confirms what you should already know intuitively -- his best distances are 3000-5000m.

Next year will be a good year for him to concentrate more in that area. Maybe he has been hesitant to move down due to more competition to get on the team? Or has his coach imagined him to be more of a 10K-marathoner?

Looking at the table, the 10K american record looks ripe to go too.

[malmo]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

i really think that the one single race in Zurich should be enough to pip him into the top ten.

There must be precedent for this for runners that concentrate on 5000 but then drop a really impressive time their one outing at 10K. I'm guessing that is the more common scenario, rather than the 10K specialist running a single 5000.

Probably not.

The precedent here is that of an athlete at the top of their fitness meeting opportunity.

I'd say that when Ritzenhein ran 8:11 and 13:16 he was probably a 13:05 runner back then, but was never entered in the "right race." Yesterday's breakthrough was the next logical step from 13:05.

[Marlow]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

It this one race enough to get him a top ten world ranking in both the 5k and 10k. I'm thinking it's going to be close.

I'm lost - how does one very good 5K get one ranked in the 10K?

[Daisy]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

It this one race enough to get him a top ten world ranking in both the 5k and 10k. I'm thinking it's going to be close.

I'm lost - how does one very good 5K get one ranked in the 10K?

Will that one race be enough to get him ranked in the top ten of the 5K in addition to the 10K?

[malmo]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

I'm lost -

Agreed.

[bhall]

At this point we don't know if this theory applies or not but... in the past we've seen a couple cases where really good guys switch coaches from a heavy distance base to much more speed oriented system and reap big benefits quickly but struggle down the road once the base is diminished. Joe Falcon and David Krummenacker are the examples I can think of off the top of my head. The long term loss of base seems less likely with Ritz/Salazar combination. So I'm suggesting that after a couple years of consistent and relatively healthy marathon/10k training the 5k breakthrough comes from a couple factors (in no particular order):

1. Big Base
2. Being uninjured for a relatively long period
3. Lots more AT speed work
4. Consistently positive training environment

[Marlow]

Re: '09 Zürich m5000 (Ritz AR 12:56.27!)

Will that one race be enough to get him ranked in the top ten of the 5K in addition to the 10K?

Oh . . . ops:

[SQUACKEE]

Yep, a big base translates to a lot of 5k speed, It easier to be fast, i.e. a last 800 in 2 mins,if your not dying.

[Marlow]

the 5k breakthrough comes from a couple factors (in no particular order):
1. Big Base
2. Being uninjured for a relatively long period
3. Lots more AT speed work
4. Consistently positive training environment

Totally agree and would add that you can NOT put them in ANY order - he needed all four together!

[malmo]

I'd say the third fastest performer of the year with the 4th fastest performance, defeating three of the top ten (3,4,9) at WC should EASILY be enough for top ten ranking in the 5k.

World list
12:52.32 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13/06/1982 1 Zürich 28/08/2009
12:55.03 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03/03/1986 2 Zürich 28/08/2009
12:56.23 Kenenisa Bekele 1 Roma 10/07/2009
12:56.27 Dathan Ritzenhein USA 30/12/1982 3 Zürich 28/08/2009
12:56.46 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05/11/1984 1 Milano 25/06/2009
12:57.62 Mark Kosgey Kiptoo KEN 21/06/1976 2 Roma 10/07/2009
12:58.17 Vincent Kiprop Chepkok KEN 05/07/1988 4 Zürich 28/08/2009
12:58.24 Leonard Patrick Komon KEN 10/01/1988 3 Roma 10/07/2009
12:58.70 Lucas Kimeli Rotich KEN 16/04/1990 4 Roma 10/07/2009
12:59.22 Bekana Daba ETH 29/07/1988 5 Roma 10/07/2009
12:59.27 Moses Ndiema Kipsiro UGA 02/09/1986 5 Zürich 28/08/2009
12:59.56 Ali Abdosh ETH 28/08/1987 1 Hengelo 01/06/2009
12:59.75 Imane Merga ETH 15/10/1988 6 Roma 10/07/2009

At Zurich Ritzenhein defeats C'Kurui, Kipsiro and Chepkok.

World Championships
1 402 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13:17.09
2 1196 Bernard Lagat USA 13:17.33
3 952 James Kwalia C'Kurui QAT 13:17.78
4 1134 Moses Ndiema Kipsiro UGA 13:18.11 (SB)
5 726 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 13:18.95
6 401 Ali Abdosh ETH 13:19.11
7 497 Mohammed Farah GBR 13:19.69
8 1235 Matthew Tegenkamp USA 13:20.23
9 719 Vincent Kiprop Chepkok KEN 13:21.31
10 361 Jesús España ESP 13:22.07

http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists ... etail.html

Zurich results.

1 Kenenisa Bekele [ETH] ETH 12:52.32 20
2 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi [KEN] KEN 12:55.03 16
3 Dathan Ritzenhein [USA] USA 12:56.27 14
4 Vincent Kiprop Chepkok [KEN] KEN 12:58.17 12
5 Moses Ndiema Kipsiro [UGA] UGA 12:59.27 10
6 Joseph Ebuya [KEN] KEN 13:00.22 8
7 Moses Ndiema Masai [KEN] KEN 13:06.16 6
8 Silas Kipruto [KEN] KEN 13:09.08 4
9 Leonard Patrick Komon [KEN] KEN 13:17.43 3
10 Micah Kipkemboi Kogo [KEN] KEN 13:18.57 3
James Kwalia C'Kurui [QAT] QAT DNF
Bekana Daba [ETH] ETH DNF
Mark Kosgey Kiptoo [KEN] KEN DNF
Thomas Pkemei Longosiwa [KEN] KEN DNF
Sammy Alex Mutahi [KEN] KEN DNF