3 Innovations I Heartily Dislike !

[dukehjsteve]

I stand by my comments. Now let me back up a bit by saying a LOVE the "new" HJ, PV, and SP, but I loved the "old" ones a whole lot more !!!

[fieldguy]

i think the point about the appeal of the pv to casual fans (and even those on this board) is indisputable. it should be on tv more -- fat chance, as long as beach volleyball is endorsed by the ioc -- because the slow-motion camera loves it. the appeal of the event would be a lot less without the pole being whippy.

while a high school pole vaulter died in washington state last spring, i believe catastrophic injuries have been significantly reduced by padding just about everything that can be padded in the event.

[26mi235]

More padding is needed with 19'/6.00 vaulter than for 7'-15'/2-4.5m vaulters.

[Pego]

I was never too crazy about the fiberglass poles, the other two techniques I have no problem with.

Speaking of a neck-breaking potential, the flop cannot compare to what those little girls gymnasts do on a balance beam. It amazes me how few get seriously hurt.

[26mi235]

I was never too crazy about the fiberglass poles, the other two techniques I have no problem with.

Speaking of a neck-breaking potential, the flop cannot compare to what those little girls gymnasts do on a balance beam. It amazes me how few get seriously hurt.

Agree - I officiate PV and have a Level 7 gymnast so I see both up close.

[TrakFan]

Agree - I officiate PV and have a Level 7 gymnast so I see both up close.

I learned something today...didn't realize gymnasts had levels (1-10) until I googled it after your post.

[Marlow]

More padding is needed with 19'/6.00 vaulter than for 7'-15'/2-4.5m vaulters.

How often do 19' vaulters get hurt? How often do 7' vaulters get hurt? I realize there's a few more of the 7s than the 19s, but 19s know what they're doing and 7s don't. The padding is identical for both and for good reason.

[TrainerPhil]

I always wished someone would challenge the Fosbury Flop.

I struggle with accepting that jumping backwards is more effective than jumping forward.

I was never a high jumper, but I was fooling around with it a few weeks ago and I was able to get over 5' 10'' jumping forward and I could barely get over 5' 2" using the Fos. But I trust the experts. The Fos must be the way to go as all the modern top class jumpers use it. And when done properly the Fosbury flop is a thing of beauty. Jumping forward is awkward to watch at best.

[TrackDaddy]

Through a pm someone is gathering some information for me regarding jumping forward.

Apparently there's a legimate argument that it may be as good if not better than flopping.

[midnightsun]

. And when done properly the Fosbury flop is a thing of beauty. Jumping forward is awkward to watch at best.

My thoughts exactly. I may be too used to the Fosbury to probably not fully appreciate the straddling technique but the latter does look clumsy to me too.

[marknhj]

Through a pm someone is gathering some information for me regarding jumping forward.
Apparently there's a legimate argument that it may be as good if not better than flopping.

I'm interested to see the information, and I know where it comes from, but to say the least I'm skeptical. The flop is a vastly more efficient method of transferring horizontal speed into vertical lift, more effectively optimizes the raising of the jumpers COM in it's relationship to the bar, and is a superior technique for bar clearance (I'm comparing it to the straddle; if another forward jumping technique to world class heights is possible, I think we would have seen it by now).

As the flop matured we did see some hybrid techniques, especially from the Soviets. They experimented with the straddle from a curved approach (Belkov) and a flop with a straight, straddle-like, lead leg (Grigoryev). Both jumped high, 2.32m and 2.30m, but neither style was further adopted as it became clear that the flop was a better and more effective technique. Frankly, I've always suspected that the Soviets were looking for a way to avoid fully adopting an American technique. The flop is also far less damaging to the knees. We know what happened to the greatest talent many believe we've ever seen, Yashchenko, and the last time I saw Rolf Beilschmidt he was on crutches.

I also think the flop is a thing of beauty, while the straddle is awkward and clumsy (I'm biased, of course)! I feel the same about the spin in the SP and PVing with modern polls, they're beautifully graceful to watch. One thing I loved with the coverage of Berlin was the extreme close-ups of the SP, Discus and Hammer athletes feet. I found the shots fascinating, awesome to watch and the spinners feet ballet-like in their execution.

[fieldguy]

pole vaulters can miss the pit or bounce off the side onto the track. in the 2004 olympic final, pavel gerasimov missed the pads from 18-6. high jumpers hit the pads.

[tandfman]

Re: 3 Innovations I Heartily Dislike !

OK, let me proclaim to the world:

1. I hate the Fosbury Flop. It's legal, it's better, and the purveyors of it are great athletes, but it is ugly. I wish it had never been invented. The Straddle was a thing of beauty.

2. Similarly, I dislike fiberglass pole vaulting. Ditto most of the comments above.

3. DItto for the "Spin" Shot Put. It's awful ! Majewski, I love to watch you throw. Keep licking those spinners !

Hoot at me, curse me, whatever, but that's the way I feel.

And how do you feel about the electric light bulb and the horseless carriage? :P

[TrackDaddy]

mark

a couple of things...

First, I believe you're in luck (or not) as the person who pm'd me intends to share the information on the board I believe. They stated that they have information from two experts that indicate the flop may not be superior to the straddle. Its just that its late where they are and they couldnt post it tonight.

I would agree that in that particular situation during that era the Soviets may have had suspect motives for wanting to do it differently.

Finally, I agree with you that the straddle is ugly and awkward and the flop is more graceful. It's just that IMO it seems more natural that to jump high, like jumping far, forward would be superior to backwards. Of course for years now it appears as though I'm wrong.

[Marlow]

the flop may not be superior to the straddle.

I've always thought that a full-on dive-straddle (as opposed to the Brumel-straddle) could be biomechanically superior to the back layout of the Flop, because the center of gravity could be lower in the belly-to-the-bar pike than the arching layout of the Flop. I tried to perfect it in HS but couldn't, so I flopped to great (relative to my competition) success. Undefeated through to the New England Prep School Championships, where I NHed on a cold rainy day in May of 1969!