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3 Innovations I Heartily Dislike !

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  • Stafanitus
    replied
    Good morning.

    There is an american jumper posting training vids on youtube claiming his coach was Zhu`s coach too.

    Some of you might know him much better than me, maybe intersting to watch and have some of the high jumpers comments.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/highjumper205

    Back to the thread title i am waiting for new technical-inventions to be seen.
    I remember two american triplejumpers working on a hitch step phase in the 90s but cant find those videos. Was it for example Robert Howard? Does anybody remember, are there vids i can check?

    greetings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Per Andersen
    replied
    Originally posted by Stafanitus
    hello.

    so what if a bunch of talented jumpers developed belkovs start to perfection in our days? yashchenkos clearance with paklins kurve?


    greetings.
    It would be too demoralizing if that bunch of talented jumpers found out that in 1983, Zhu Jianhua flopped 2.38 on a training background that involved absolutely no power training :wink:

    Leave a comment:


  • kuha
    replied
    Steve: For the record, I'm with you 2/3s of the way. I'm fine with the fiberglass pole, but otherwise agree with you completely!

    Leave a comment:


  • mike renfro
    replied
    [quote="marknhj"] As the flop matured we did see some hybrid techniques, especially from the Soviets. They experimented with the straddle from a curved approach (Belkov) and a flop with a straight, straddle-like, lead leg (Grigoryev). Both jumped high, 2.32m and 2.30m, but neither style was further adopted as it became clear that the flop was a better and more effective technique. Frankly, I've always suspected that the Soviets were looking for a way to avoid fully adopting an American technique. The flop is also far less damaging to the knees. We know what happened to the greatest talent many believe we've ever seen, Yashchenko, and the last time I saw Rolf Beilschmidt he was on crutches.
    [quote="markhj"]

    I'm pretty sure I saw either Belkov or Grigoryev in LA in '83. I thoght the straddle with the J run up had real promise. Speed of approach of the flop and the body control of the straddle. Didn't quite work out that way.

    Leave a comment:


  • mike renfro
    replied
    Re: 3 Innovations I Heartily Dislike !

    Originally posted by dukehjsteve
    They are fine, but canned beer and McDonald's Quarter Pounder were greater inventions.
    Boy, do you have bad taste :shock:

    Leave a comment:


  • dukehjsteve
    replied
    The pictures posted of Yash and Brumel were sort of unfair. I'm sure I could find "ugly" pictures of Marilyn Monroe and Paris Hilton too. There are dozens of other pics of Straddlers, Yash and Brumel included , which are indeed much, more stylistic than the ones posted. Heck, I even have a picture of ME on top of the bar that looks pretty darn good !

    Leave a comment:


  • IanS_Liv
    replied
    Originally posted by Stafanitus
    his name is christian schenk. german gold medal at the olympics and third and fourth i think at wc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjgEmiI8 ... 7&index=16

    at 3:09 mins
    That's who it is, although my memory is playing tricks and remembering it as more recently than that. I was only a kid at the time and didn't know about the straddle, although the first HJ technique we were taught was the scissors. I distinctly remember asking someone "what on Earth is that man doing?" :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • lonewolf
    replied
    In the 1956 Calif State Meet, note the rolled towel target in the LJ pit .

    Leave a comment:


  • Stafanitus
    replied
    his name is christian schenk. german gold medal at the olympics and third and fourth i think at wc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjgEmiI8 ... 7&index=16

    at 3:09 mins

    Leave a comment:


  • IanS_Liv
    replied
    Originally posted by Stafanitus
    So what if a bunch of talented jumpers developed Belkov's start to perfection in our days? Yashchenko's clearance with Paklin's curve? First is 17 year old Sorin Matei, third is Belkov.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPiij8qlp3o

    Edit: I forgot to mention you have to wait for jumper number 4, too.
    Thanks for posting that vid Stafanitus. It's fascinating to watch. I can't place that 4th jumper in the British strip. His name's on the tip of my tongue but can't think who it is ...

    To watch the straddle is a real novelty for me. Although I do remember watching a Russian (I think) decathlete clear 2.28m in the HJ in the 90s. I wish I could remember his name!

    One point struck this non-high jumper. I was wondering whether the straight-line approach of the straddle generated more speed/power than the tight curve of the flop? And if it did, whether the flop could gain from having the straight-line approach?

    Leave a comment:


  • marknhj
    replied
    Originally posted by Stafanitus
    well, i think brumel is the smarter looking guy. but beeing seroius it would be fair to post a picture that gives a view of a more intended movement.
    watch the videos of yashchenko and we talk again.
    greetings.
    Like this picture of elegance from Yashchenko?




    For balance, I posted a really awful picture of Silnov's bar clearance here last year!

    Leave a comment:


  • jhc68
    replied
    Yeah, Brumel was more about power and efficiency than elegance. But watch moving video sequences rather than the particular moment caught by the camera posted above for a real appreciation of Brumel.
    Worth noting as well that Fosbury himself never approached Brumel's WR which was eventually eclipsed by another straddler - the REALLY awkward looking Pat Matzdorf!

    Leave a comment:


  • Stafanitus
    replied
    hello.

    so what if a bunch of talented jumpers developed belkovs start to perfection in our days? yashchenkos clearance with paklins kurve?

    first is 17 year old sorin matei, third is belkov.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPiij8qlp3o

    Edit: I forgot to mention you have to wait for jumper number 4, too.

    greetings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stafanitus
    replied
    well, i think brumel is the smarter looking guy. but beeing seroius it would be fair to post a picture that gives a view of a more intended movement.

    watch the videos of yashchenko and we talk again.

    greetings.

    Leave a comment:


  • jhc68
    replied
    RE: "Forward Jumping"
    Go here: http://www.dyestatcal.com/ATHLETICS/TRACK/56_state.htm

    Then click on the Small Version video file of the 1956 California State Meet. At just past 5 minutes into the video you'll see Bob Avant as a high school kid using the same technique that got him over 7 feet and world ranked a few years later. It is certainly not a standard straddle roll by either American or Soviet notions, but it was very effective for him.

    I agree with Marlow when he says:
    I've always thought that a full-on dive-straddle (as opposed to the Brumel-straddle) could be biomechanically superior to the back layout of the Flop, because the center of gravity could be lower in the belly-to-the-bar pike than the arching layout of the Flop.
    I thnk if we analyzed really skilled rollers (the Brumels and Yash's and Avants) and really skilled floppers (Holm comes to mind immediately) that they all dsitrubute their body mass at clearance so that their center of gravity is lower than bar ht. Efficiency would depend as much on personal body flexibility and technique as much as the backward or forward style. Look at Yash's photos and note the contorted positions he used at clearance.

    I'm not one to argue with marknhj and I agree that straight-leg straddling is a knee killer. Conversely, flopping is a foot and ankle scourge. And I'll also agree with marknhj that the great advantage of flopping is the conversion of horizontal speed to vertical energy that traditional straddling cannot match.

    That being said, steve is right: flopping is ugly as sin !!!
    Watch all the jumpers on that old State Meet video. There are straight leg straddlers, bent leg straddlers, western rollers and the indescribable Avant along with lots of flying sawdust. Much more entertaining than a bunch of flopping IMHO

    Leave a comment:

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