A look at the decathlon

[nmzoo]

The following was gleaned from the results of decathlon competitions at the major meets since 2000 (WC’s/Oly’s – 8 all together):

Over this period of time, the gold medalists (GM) averaged 8771 pts with the highest being 8902 by Dvorak in 2001, the silver medalists (SM) averaged 8653 pts and the bronze medalists (BM) averaged 8546 pts.

The event in which the medalists scored the most points – the long jump. On average the GM scored 998 pts (7.75m/25’5”). There were 8 jumpers over 1000 pts with the most by one athlete being 1079 pts (8.27m/27’0.5”). The 3 medalists averaged 966 pts (7.59m/25’0”) during this time. The only other events in which there was even 1 athlete with 1000 pts were the 110H (1000pts – 13.60) and the PV (1035pts– 5.40m/17’8”). The GM won the LJ half the time and was never worse than 4th..

The lowest (not surprisingly) was the 1500m where the GM during this time averaged 16th place while the SM averaged 10th place and the BM averaged 13th place in this event. 5 times the 1500 did not change the order, and only once did it move an athlete into the medals (5th to 3rd).

Excluding the 1500m, the lowest scoring event was, again not surprisingly, the shot put where the GM averaged 850 pts (15.98m/52’5”). All medalists averaged 826 pts (15.59m/ 51’2”).

In the sprints (100m, 110H, 400m) the GM averaged 936 pts, all medalists averaged 920 pts. In the jumps (LJ, HJ, TJ) the GM averaged 916 pts, all medalists averaged 905 pts. In the throws the GM averaged 856 pts, all medalists averaged 823 pts. This would indicate that it was in the throws that the GM put the most distance between himself and the other medalists.

The most intriguing fact was that no decathlon was won by any one who was not in the top 3 after 3 events (100m, LJ, SP), with the exception of 2007 when the leader DNF’d.. It was possible to move into the medals when they were lower than 3rd after the first 3 events but not the GM position. This held true even for other “major” competitions during that period of time (such as NCAA’s, Olympic trials and USATF Championships). It may be possible to win if you are not in the top 3 after 3 events, but that is not the way to bet!

[DecFan]

Thanks for these calculations. Many interesting facts. Well done.

I think the statistic about the winner being in the top 3 after 3 events is an anomaly, based on similar strengths of the top decathletes over the last few years. If Suarez continues to improve, we'll see a change in that statistic. If I recall correctly, he was something like 12th after 3 events at Berlin.

[Spickard]

Don't know where I saw it, but the event that correlates the highest with the final score is the 100m. Crazy...the best predictor of final finish order is the first event.

[mike renfro]

Interesting analsysis. It pretty much reinforces my predjudice that speed is the one ingredient required for multi eventers. If you can throw as well, WRs come. Have you done the numbers on the heptahlon as well?

Talence might be interesting this year. Fountain will almost certainly be there. She has been hurdling and jumping well in open events, and if Wade hadn't squeeked out the B q at Eugene, Fountain would have been on the podium in Berlin. I have no clue who will show on the decathlon side. Hardee has nothing to gain (except, maybe a PR) but Suarez may try for a good result. I guess Pappas might show as well. The US-Ger meet probably didn't use him up.

[cacique]

Re: A look at the decathlon

The event in which the medalists scored the most points – the long jump. On average the GM scored 998 pts (7.75m/25’5”). There were 8 jumpers over 1000 pts with the most by one athlete being 1079 pts (8.27m/27’0.5”).

wow... who jumped 8.27? clay? o'brien? sebrle?????

[Stafanitus]

Very interesting, thanks.

I also wait for the 8,27.

I think Christian Schenk never came near Top 3 after 3 events.

Greetings.

[DecFan]

Re: A look at the decathlon

wow... who jumped 8.27? clay? o'brien? sebrle?????

The farthest LJ in a >7000pt decathlon is Erki Nool, 8.22. Wind was 3.0. Sebrle is next 8.11, wind 1.9. (Note that Michael Schrader jumped 8.05 (1.9) at Gotzis this year).

Pappas is definitely competing at Talence, and looks to be in the mix.

[gh]

I can see mobs of angry decathletes coming after me with pitchforks now, but I've always thought that the event places too much emphasis on speed and strength and not enough on endurance. Not only is the 1500 not enough of a test, it too often turns into an anticlimactic boring slog at the end of things.

(As Daley Thompson once said, and I paraphrase, "Grueling? I compete for a total of 14 minutes over two days. Not dieing of boredom is the biggest task.")

So, to change the whole equation, I'd start with (drum roll......) a steeplechase! See who competes well after something hard to get things rolling. Replacing the 1500, obviously.

The 400 also goes, and is replaced by an 800, which is the last event. Something "long," yet tactical and capable of generating head-to-head excitement.

(Note on the angry mob: under my setup I think Joe Detmer might be voting for me for president.) (Oh yeah, and Curtis Beach too)

[Pego]

under my setup I think Joe Detmer might be voting for me for president

Clearly, if it's good for a Badger, it must be good :wink: .

[unclezadok]

Bruce Jenner was probably never leading after 3 events in a big meet. Dan O'Brien probably usually was. Bill Watson (1940) may have been the decathlete most likely to of all time--he was world class in both the SP and the LJ.
If GH's suggestion was adopted, Beach might never lose another decathlon starting next year!

[Dave]

I can see mobs of angry decathletes coming after me with pitchforks now, but I've always thought that the event places too much emphasis on speed and strength and not enough on endurance. Not only is the 1500 not enough of a test, it too often turns into an anticlimactic boring slog at the end of things.

(As Daley Thompson once said, and I paraphrase, "Grueling? I compete for a total of 14 minutes over two days. Not dieing of boredom is the biggest task.")

So, to change the whole equation, I'd start with (drum roll......) a steeplechase! See who competes well after something hard to get things rolling. Replacing the 1500, obviously.

The 400 also goes, and is replaced by an 800, which is the last event. Something "long," yet tactical and capable of generating head-to-head excitement.

(Note on the angry mob: under my setup I think Joe Detmer might be voting for me for president.) (Oh yeah, and Curtis Beach too)

I like the suggestion. It would force a more balanced event. Let's say you were Donovan Kilmartin, you would never have been tempted to bulk up for the throws at the cost of jumps given the premium on carrying the weight for two rather than one event.

[Spickard]

I can see mobs of angry decathletes coming after me with pitchforks now, but I've always thought that the event places too much emphasis on speed and strength and not enough on endurance. Not only is the 1500 not enough of a test, it too often turns into an anticlimactic boring slog at the end of things.

(As Daley Thompson once said, and I paraphrase, "Grueling? I compete for a total of 14 minutes over two days. Not dieing of boredom is the biggest task.")

So, to change the whole equation, I'd start with (drum roll......) a steeplechase! See who competes well after something hard to get things rolling. Replacing the 1500, obviously.

The 400 also goes, and is replaced by an 800, which is the last event. Something "long," yet tactical and capable of generating head-to-head excitement.

(Note on the angry mob: under my setup I think Joe Detmer might be voting for me for president.) (Oh yeah, and Curtis Beach too)

...because that's what we need in track and field: more distance events. Therefore, I will step up as the first member of the angry mob.

The endurance element in the event is already there. It's TEN events. The appreciation of it happens when the observer understands the incredibly wide variety of skills involved. The whole point is to test the spectrum of physiological stresses and skills.

And if Daley Thompson wasn't being facetious, then why was he piqued by Steve Ovett's "nine mickey mouse events and a mediocre 1500" comment? Daley wouldn't have been a world class decathlete in your new format!

Finally, I bet Joe Detmer or Curtis Beach or any other fast-1500-running Deca would blanch at the thought of altering the event so they could win. Decathletes have more respect for the sport and its traditions than that.

[Dave]

I can see mobs of angry decathletes coming after me with pitchforks now, but I've always thought that the event places too much emphasis on speed and strength and not enough on endurance. Not only is the 1500 not enough of a test, it too often turns into an anticlimactic boring slog at the end of things.

(As Daley Thompson once said, and I paraphrase, "Grueling? I compete for a total of 14 minutes over two days. Not dieing of boredom is the biggest task.")

So, to change the whole equation, I'd start with (drum roll......) a steeplechase! See who competes well after something hard to get things rolling. Replacing the 1500, obviously.

The 400 also goes, and is replaced by an 800, which is the last event. Something "long," yet tactical and capable of generating head-to-head excitement.

(Note on the angry mob: under my setup I think Joe Detmer might be voting for me for president.) (Oh yeah, and Curtis Beach too)

...because that's what we need in track and field: more distance events. Therefore, I will step up as the first member of the angry mob.

The endurance element in the event is already there. It's TEN events. The appreciation of it happens when the observer understands the incredibly wide variety of skills involved. The whole point is to test the spectrum of physiological stresses and skills.

And if Daley Thompson wasn't being facetious, then why was he piqued by Steve Ovett's "nine mickey mouse events and a mediocre 1500" comment? Daley wouldn't have been a world class decathlete in your new format!

Finally, I bet Joe Detmer or Curtis Beach or any other fast-1500-running Deca would blanch at the thought of altering the event so they could win. Decathletes have more respect for the sport and its traditions than that.

Then, what would you think of changing the 1500 and making it first?

[unclezadok]

What would be the overall order then? I don't think we want to end with the JT--well, maybe Clay and Suarez would.

[Spickard]

Then, what would you think of changing the 1500 and making it first?

Well, if we are still looking at any semblance of entertainment value, we're going to see four events on that day that are well below the capabilities of the participants. Blech.

Human physiology pretty much dictates the order of events....they are ordered as they are for maximum value across all ten events. We know that lactic acid affects the neuromuscular system to the point where coordination breaks down. Put guys in a 1500 first and they are crap in everything that follows. This is why the 400 is last on the first day and the 1500 is last of all.

Look, I am not here to tell you that the 1500 in a deca is a pretty sight. In fact, it's one of the most pathetic things you'll ever see at the world class level. That's not the point, though. The point of the 1500 is that it is a crucible of endurance that one must pay a price for in order to be crowned master of the event, and the price is higher for those who are not well adapted to it. When you put it in context, it's easier to appreciate (but nevertheless, ugly.) :wink: