Par for Webb:s Course

[EPelle]

http://webpages.marshall.edu/~batey2/Webbtoon.htm

[az2]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

so alan had artificial assistance!!

still, most of us were stunned by the margin he broke ryun's mark...

perhaps that was webb's moment of fame...

perhaps not.....

[EPelle]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

I think you meant that Webb had artificial intelligence in thinking he could translate one race into an immediate and successful future.

Maybe that future lies within his grasp this year, maybe next.

Only time (and podium place) will tell if the tall tale of one Alan Webb - runner, athlete, wunderkind-turned-collegiate-turned-pro (who once ran a 3.53 and a 3.38, but was only appreciated by the running [actually, we are all probably sitting] community when he competed at a level satisfactory to our own tastes) - made it to the "top", wherever that may have been on the ever-changing, fluctuating miling scale.

[az2]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

I don't believe a podium finish will ever be in Webb's future...

I think the best he can achieve would be to make a FINAL.

[DIII Coach]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

I often have wondered that if the internet had existed during Jim Ryun's running career, would he have experienced the fickleness of track and field fans? Think about the ups and downs his career careened through. Olympic team and world record as a teenager. Stepping off the track in a collegiate meet. Only winning the silver in the 68 games. Making the 72 team. Falling in Munich. High School coach leaves after junior year, Ryun reunites with him at KU. Losing to Liquori at Franklin Field and on and on.

My point is that rarely does a running career not experience ups and downs. So what if Alan Webb didn't win the 3k at the US champs. What matters this year is the trials and the games. And even at that, it's only one year out of a career. As far as I know, Herb Elliot is the only undefeated middle distance runner in modern history (yes, I know he lost as a junior).

[az2]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

there's a ryun and scott comparison going on in an other thread...

ryun was a true tragic figure in the greek sense...

greatness at youth...keino runs a marvelous race...the doubt in ryun, the fall in munich...

the internet point is excellent...

Ryun was up there with Joe Namath and Hank Aaron ands Willie Mays in the minds of his generation.

[EPelle]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

I don t think Ryun would have gotten negative direct feedback from strangers during his day (ie, an open forum). Someone in the AAU would have censored out any trash-talking, citing it was bad for athletics and the athletes.

Today, we are all experts of our own opinions, having all stepped on the line, layed it down, and achieved more than we are willing (or able) to share with others in our shadows and footsteps. Or so we believe!

We are world-beaters and record-holders. We have been to the Olympics, World Championships, Pan-Ams, University Games, Juniors, and everything in-between high school meets and the NCAAs. We have won it all with perfection, and we require no less from today:s athletes.

We never burned out from the collegiate system, though some today wonder if that same system which gave us greatness is to be blamed for the decline of our youth.

Yet, despite our greatness, it seems today:s youth don t know anything of our past. How could they forget, as some of us still hold records that today:s folks have stopped dreaming of touching?

Willie Hordge has never heard of Steve Lewis. Steve Lewis! Olympic champion at 19-years-old. The world and American Junior-record holder at 43.89. Ah.

If we had then what we have now in terms of communication and technique, I don t doubt for a minute that one serious athlete would pass on the opportunity to share his/her experiences with those in their footsteps, for in so doing, the exchange of such vital information would have changed the scope of US distance running (and other disciplines), and shortened the gap between yesterday and tomorrow.

[EPelle]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

Alan may benefit from more training partners. He may need a partner to make him more dynamic. Look at what:s going on with Lincoln and Cragg. We can look at Stember and Jennings... much of the Farm Team.

Alan is under the supervision and guidance of his coach and mentor, and seems to be carrying much of the load on his own. Alan can gain mental toughness out there while denying and resisting his body:s temptation to tire while pushing through one more interval... one more lap around the track. His coach can also give some of that load to someone else and have them pace, push and pull Webb through tough workouts. Webb can then test his "kick" - or acceleration - against someone stronger than Webb is while he is tired, nearly exhausted and eager to finish well.

[15mph]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

I believe Webb has the speed to be a solid 3:50 miler. I think he will be comparable to Byers and Holman. At the very least he will be as good as Jeff Atkinson. It would be nice to have America's fastest miler post times below 3:54 again.
We may have to wait longer for another Steve Scott or Jim Ryun.

[Cyril]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

>I believe Webb has the speed to be a solid 3:50 miler.

The problem is we haven't seen the speed for almost three years. Does he still have it? I'm hopeful. He does have the strength, but strength alone doesn't make a miler. I want to see that wicked finish from 300 out - that is what set him apart, and made everybody sit up and say this kid is special. I don't care if he can run 13:15, if he can't rip a finishing 54-55 after a 2:56-2:58 who cares?

Hoefully we will again see him running a few 8s in April-June, this was tremendously helpful in '01. While his XC peformances are promising his lack of finish indoors is very unimpressive. Of course its still very early and he probably hasn't been doing too much top-end work, hopefully when he starts doing it he will be able to light the fuse again - we should start to see something in a couple of months.

[15mph]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

It takes a while for somebody to develop into a 3:50 miler. How old where Holman and Falcon when they developed 3:50 speed.

What age was Steve Scott when he first broke 3:50.

[Cyril]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

You are right, it does take time to go 3:50. 3:53 for an 18 year old was way ahead of schedule. But, again, what made him such an exciting prospect was his speed. His relay 4 and open 8 were remarkable for a miler - Ryunesque.

Sure he was also a very good h.s. xc runner. Second to Ritz at nationals was a tremedous accomplishment. But it pales in comparison to 3:53 or 3:38. I would like to see him get back to the roots that got him this attention - speed!

[az2]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

As long as Webb stays healthy, by the time Sacramento rolls around, we'll have our answer about his speed.

As long as Webb doesn't emulate Holman in Trial type enviroments.

Cyril mentioned the final 300...

Webb still needs to prove he has the kick and can tactically use it against several others, who also can kick.

One thing he's done indoors is get disconnected from the top 2 or 3 guys. Being last after the 400 leads to more trouble than good.

When the pace heats up, the gap gets too large for him. Being better positioned earlier would be one suggestion from me.

[15mph]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

If Webb wants at least the B standard he will have to run at least 3:37.50 for the 1500.

Are these the right standard numbers.

A = 3:36.20
B = 3:37.50

[jhc68]

Re: Par for Webb:s Course

DIII is right, Jim Ryun and his coaches would have been beaten to smithereens on boards like this if the internet had been around 40 years ago! Luckily, real champions have the confidence and grit to completely ignore people like us who second guess them constantly!!!!