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since men's AOY is a boring topic this year.....

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  • since men's AOY is a boring topic this year.....

    ..... who will be the U.S. men's AOY?

    One of the world champs (Merritt, Clement, Phillips, Cantwell, Hardee)?

    Or a non-champ AR setter (Gay, Ritz)?

  • #2
    I'm a big Phillips fan, whether or not he finishes first here.

    One thing I've always found interesting about the US rankings is that they are apparently 'required' to follow the World Rankings order. This means that, regardless of how dominant an athlete is nationally, it's his international stature that matters, even though these are US-only rankings.

    But I know we're talking about AOY, which is a vote and not a criteria-based evaluation. Don't the US AOY votes basically follow the int'l AOY as well?

    Comment


    • #3
      I would give it to Gay.
      I don't think that what bolt has done this year makes Gays races any worse.
      Three ARs in one year!
      Gets my vote

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll co-sign on Gay. He might be the most accomplished second banana anywhere in any sport.

        Merritt is barely in the discussion. While he has gone undefeated and won the WC, his times weren't exactly legendary. He's most famous for beating Wariner, but he has been there and done that already.

        Liked what Hardee did at the WC, unfortunately, he didn't compete against the Olympic champ, and because it's the decath, his competition schedule, shall we say, was a bit light.

        Going back to Gay: Has there ever been another sprinter to compete at that level and still be a distant second in his event?

        Comment


        • #5
          Calvin Smith behind Carl Lewis jumps to mind, or Lewis behind Ben Johnson.

          Take this another direction...how often has the US Athlete of the Year not won a national championship (NCAA, AAU/TAC/USATF)?

          If you're looking to play devil's advocate, then Dwight Phillips is the only realistic alternative to Gay.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Half Miler
            I'm a big Phillips fan, whether or not he finishes first here.

            One thing I've always found interesting about the US rankings is that they are apparently 'required' to follow the World Rankings order. This means that, regardless of how dominant an athlete is nationally, it's his international stature that matters, even though these are US-only rankings.

            But I know we're talking about AOY, which is a vote and not a criteria-based evaluation. Don't the US AOY votes basically follow the int'l AOY as well?
            The same people vote in both polls. The world poll is done first. In filling out the U.S. poll, yes it's required that you keep any Americans you voted for in the same relative order.

            It does happen lower down (particularly in years where not many Americans get world votes) that somebody will have a higher U.S. spot than they did in the world. That happens, say, when Joe Smith gets a single vote for No. 10 on the world side, and Jim Jones gets none. But on the U.S. side, where both get a lot of votes, it's sometimes easy for Jones to pass Smith.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mighty Favog
              ....
              Take this another direction...how often has the US Athlete of the Year not won a national championship (NCAA, AAU/TAC/USATF)?....
              Good start is to crossmatch Michael Johnson's wild cards against his AOYs (or Mo Greene).

              Comment


              • #8
                My ballot:
                1. Gay[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                2. Cantwell[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                3. Phillips[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                4. Hardee[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                5. Merritt[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                6. Wariner[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                7. Lagat[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                8. Ritzenhein[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                9. Clement[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                10. Symmonds[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                Honorable mention (in alphabetical order):
                • Jackson[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                • Pappas[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                • Payne[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                • Spearmon[/*:m:2wgg49ap]
                • Trammell[/*:m:2wgg49ap]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by gh
                  Originally posted by Half Miler
                  I'm a big Phillips fan, whether or not he finishes first here.

                  One thing I've always found interesting about the US rankings is that they are apparently 'required' to follow the World Rankings order. This means that, regardless of how dominant an athlete is nationally, it's his international stature that matters, even though these are US-only rankings.

                  But I know we're talking about AOY, which is a vote and not a criteria-based evaluation. Don't the US AOY votes basically follow the int'l AOY as well?
                  The same people vote in both polls. The world poll is done first. In filling out the U.S. poll, yes it's required that you keep any Americans you voted for in the same relative order.

                  It does happen lower down (particularly in years where not many Americans get world votes) that somebody will have a higher U.S. spot than they did in the world. That happens, say, when Joe Smith gets a single vote for No. 10 on the world side, and Jim Jones gets none. But on the U.S. side, where both get a lot of votes, it's sometimes easy for Jones to pass Smith.
                  Thanks for the clarification. Detouring slightly here, your US and World Rankings are often (always?) compiled by separate entities, so would it be possible for Americans to rank differently compared to their World order? Is there a rule that must be followed to avoid this? I think you may have posted this scenario before, but I'm not certain.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ranks always compiled by separate entities. Since about '72 there has been a protocol in place that the U.S. Rankers have to follow the World order.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nice to see Dwight Phillips back on top. He gets my vote by a small margin over Christian Cantwell. Gay is third.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Davidokun
                        My ballot:
                        Gay
                        Cantwell
                        Phillips
                        Hardee
                        Merritt
                        Got no problem with those 5.
                        Wariner 6th? No.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Lagat will need to figure in there somewhere. 2 individual medals. Not having all the stats in front of me my gut says to put him ahead of Merritt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Lagat, of course, exposes the biased treatment that distance guys get. Does "easy" access to two events actually trump performing at an equal level in just one? (I believe no)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The bias also often applies to short sprints.

                              One of the reasons Lagat is appealing is because of his placing in races against Bekele. Merritt was dominant in a very weak year for the 400.

                              Comment

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