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  • #46
    Originally posted by lovetorun
    Since Bedford has been mentioned on this thread, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents: Some might say that Bedford didn't amount to much, but I think he had guts and made many a race faster, honest and more exciting. I just wish he would have pushed the pace in the Munich 5000m!
    I don't recall anyone saying Bedford never amounted to much. WR holder, a great double in the AAA in 1972, And great stories such as winning the Southern AAAs Junior and Senior race CC on the same day!

    Now if he had only ran that 4:15 opening mile in the 5k, instead of the 10, in 1972, that would have been a race!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Conor Dary
      Originally posted by lovetorun
      Since Bedford has been mentioned on this thread, I'd like to throw in my 2 cents: Some might say that Bedford didn't amount to much, but I think he had guts and made many a race faster, honest and more exciting. I just wish he would have pushed the pace in the Munich 5000m!
      I don't recall anyone saying Bedford never amounted to much. WR holder, a great double in the AAA in 1972, And great stories such as winning the Southern AAAs Junior and Senior race CC on the same day!

      Now if he had only ran that 4:15 opening mile in the 5k, instead of the 10, in 1972, that would have been a race!
      Absolutely. Any of us runners paying any attention at all in the early '70s were crazy about Bedford. He probably trained a bit too hard, and clearly didn't peak at exactly the right times, but these are just quibbles--he was a very exciting and important figure.

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      • #48
        Bedford was recently interviewed for a British Magazine. Still a wild man. Was drinking pint after pint of beer when a guy bet him he couldn't finish a marathon in the morning. He switched to mix drinks thinking the fruit juice would be better for the race. In the morning he ran and threw up at 18 miles but he finished.

        When he was 14 years old he decided to run around the island where he was vacationing....it was 48 miles a round!!!

        Here is the link, click on latest digital issue.


        http://www.runningfreemag.co.uk/
        phsstt!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by gh
          But--because of his early death and the cottage industry that sprang up around it--Pre has gone on to surpass Ryun in the public (such as it is) consciousness as it exists today.
          Like James Dean is remembered for acting??

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          • #50
            Originally posted by mal
            Originally posted by gh
            But--because of his early death and the cottage industry that sprang up around it--Pre has gone on to surpass Ryun in the public (such as it is) consciousness as it exists today.
            Like James Dean is remembered for acting??
            Yup. I referred to "the familiar James Dean effect" in a post above.

            What would Dean's reputation as an actor be if he hadn't died young? What would Marilyn Monroe's image/appeal be today if she hadn't died in 1962?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by kuha
              What would Dean's reputation as an actor be if he hadn't died young? What would Marilyn Monroe's image/appeal be today if she hadn't died in 1962?
              In Dean's case, it might have depended on his subsequent work. I don't believe Monroe's image and appeal would have been any different had she lived. Greta Garbo lived for nearly 50 years after her last film. She retained her image and appeal, and I think Marilyn Monroe would have retained hers. And if you want examples of women whose beauty faded with age, but who retained their image, consider Elizabeth Taylor, Brigit Bardot, etc. Their enduring image is that of their prime.

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              • #52
                I think I saw an interview with Billy Mills once where he said runners of different eras should not be compared. Mills ran on a clay track in the rain to win the '64 Olympic 10,000 in 28:24. Slow by Pre's time, but tracks were better. However, when pushed, he did note that Ghammoudi finished 2nd in the '64 10,000 (with Mills in 1st) and 2nd in the '72 5000 with Pre in 4th. But it was 2 different races separated by 8 years.

                I think the better comparison is OG and WC medals and WRs and NRs. Ritz may get the 10K AR and own the 5K at the same time and that would be outstanding. But really, things are different now. Runners race less and specialize more. What 5k/10K guy today would seriously take a shot at a 2K AR?
                In the sun with a popsicle, everthing is possible

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Run DMC
                  I think the better comparison is OG and WC medals and WRs and NRs. Ritz may get the 10K AR and own the 5K at the same time and that would be outstanding. But really, things are different now. Runners race less and specialize more. What 5k/10K guy today would seriously take a shot at a 2K AR?
                  It is interesting to note how LITTLE winning times have changed at 1500. Using Oly times:

                  Winning Oly times from 1960-1976 were 3:35 (Elliott, '60), 3:38 (Snell, '64), 3:34 (Keino, '68), 3:36 (Vasala, '72), and 3:39 (Walker, '76). The average is about 3:36.

                  The winning Oly times from '92-'08 were 3:40 (Cacho, '92), 3:35 (Morceli, '96), 3:32 (Ngeny, '00), 3:34 (El G) and 3:33 (Kiprop, after Ramzi's positive). The average is about 3:35.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Zat0pek
                    Originally posted by Run DMC
                    I think the better comparison is OG and WC medals and WRs and NRs. Ritz may get the 10K AR and own the 5K at the same time and that would be outstanding. But really, things are different now. Runners race less and specialize more. What 5k/10K guy today would seriously take a shot at a 2K AR?
                    It is interesting to note how LITTLE winning times have changed at 1500. Using Oly times:

                    Winning Oly times from 1960-1976 were 3:35 (Elliott, '60), 3:38 (Snell, '64), 3:34 (Keino, '68), 3:36 (Vasala, '72), and 3:39 (Walker, '76). The average is about 3:36.

                    The winning Oly times from '92-'08 were 3:40 (Cacho, '92), 3:35 (Morceli, '96), 3:32 (Ngeny, '00), 3:34 (El G) and 3:33 (Kiprop, after Ramzi's positive). The average is about 3:35.
                    Even more impressive when you consider that the number of rounds has dropped in races 800m and up.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Zat0pek
                      It is interesting to note how LITTLE winning times have changed at 1500. Using Oly times:

                      Winning Oly times from 1960-1976 were 3:35 (Elliott, '60), 3:38 (Snell, '64), 3:34 (Keino, '68), 3:36 (Vasala, '72), and 3:39 (Walker, '76). The average is about 3:36.

                      The winning Oly times from '92-'08 were 3:40 (Cacho, '92), 3:35 (Morceli, '96), 3:32 (Ngeny, '00), 3:34 (El G) and 3:33 (Kiprop, after Ramzi's positive). The average is about 3:35.
                      The "equivalence"of these times might be misleading. If anything, it demonstrates that championship fields have gotten far more conservative and tactical over the years. Elliott's race was a WR; Snell's Tokyo race was = fastest 1500 for the year; Keino's '68 performance was the 2nd best in history. Vasala's time in '72 was the best performance of the year (by half a second). From there on, the relative quality of the winning times (on average) declines sharply.

                      Overall, these numbers tell us much more in relative, rather than absolute, terms.

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                      • #56
                        Totally agree with kuha here...especially when one considers the times from the WC's in the ElG era, and that the last 5 years have been sort of anemic for the 1500 when compared to the previous decades (though I believe it is on the up).

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by malmo
                          Even more impressive when you consider that the number of rounds has dropped in races 800m and up.
                          It's dropped in the 10000, but the 1500 has been three heats for at least several decades. The 800 has generally been 3 but a few have been 4, 5000 has generally been 2 but a few have been 3.

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