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  • #16
    Originally posted by TrackDaddy
    I don't think painkillers are PEDs. They don't enhance performance, if injured, they allow one to manage it.

    Afterall...where would it stop? I mean aspirin are technically painkillers...no?


    A PED is something that would improve one's performance beyond that which they are naturally capable.

    If someone's foot is sprained, for example, a painkiller doesn't enhance their performance. It eases the pain allowing them to compete.
    My understanding is that steroids don't enhance performance, they permit someone to train harder with less risk of injury resulting in enhanced performance in competition. Pump a load of steroids into you without training and you'll just get fat. Quick Silver's example of ultra runners using aspirin seems very similar: aspirin helps them cope with the pain of training, enabling them to do more, resulting in enhanced performance in competition.

    Going back to your definition of a PED: "something that would improve one's performance beyond that which they are naturally capable." Couldn't the same be said of oxygen tents or hi-tech running shoes?

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    • #17
      Former US Marathon great Dick Beardley was in town this weekend for the Marathon, and was a guest speaker at the seminars.
      He also visited several high schools in the area, and spoke to the students.
      His theme was how he went from a world class runner, to dealing with severe addictions to pain killers, and persevered and came out the other side. I didn't hear the talks directly, but indirect feedback is that they were excellent,
      and very well received by the students.

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      • #18
        Steriods does enhance performances
        on the road

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Speedfirst
          Steroids do enhance performances
          Are you thinking of examples like Floyd Landis?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Daisy
            Originally posted by Speedfirst
            Steroids do enhance performances
            Are you thinking of examples like Floyd Landis?

            Among many
            on the road

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            • #21
              What he said:

              Originally posted by TrackDaddy
              I don't think painkillers are PEDs. They don't enhance performance, if injured, they allow one to manage it.

              Afterall...where would it stop? I mean aspirin are technically painkillers...no?

              Tylenol as well.

              A PED is something that would improve one's performance beyond that which they are naturally capable.

              If someone's foot is sprained, for example, a painkiller doesn't enhance their performance. It eases the pain allowing them to compete.
              I do not see it as nearly as slippery a slope as some here. I think it also passes the 'good sense' test - taking steroids or EPO seems like cheating, taking pain meds does not.

              If you think that the major sports make it a little difficult have PEDs rules can you imagine how completely they would reject any proposal to ban pain kills, which also include sprays that numb an area, I would suppose.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Barto
                Corti-steroids are legal if used as anti-inflamatories, but the direct injection of them into the bloodstream is NOT legal because they have anabolic effects.
                Okay. If true, that would make sense.
                The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by John G
                  Originally posted by TrackDaddy
                  I don't think painkillers are PEDs. They don't enhance performance, if injured, they allow one to manage it.

                  Afterall...where would it stop? I mean aspirin are technically painkillers...no?


                  A PED is something that would improve one's performance beyond that which they are naturally capable.

                  If someone's foot is sprained, for example, a painkiller doesn't enhance their performance. It eases the pain allowing them to compete.
                  My understanding is that steroids don't enhance performance, they permit someone to train harder with less risk of injury resulting in enhanced performance in competition. Pump a load of steroids into you without training and you'll just get fat. Quick Silver's example of ultra runners using aspirin seems very similar: aspirin helps them cope with the pain of training, enabling them to do more, resulting in enhanced performance in competition.

                  Going back to your definition of a PED: "something that would improve one's performance beyond that which they are naturally capable." Couldn't the same be said of oxygen tents or hi-tech running shoes?
                  A Speedfirst said, I believe steroids do enhance performance- along with the ability to permit someone to train harder (as you stated).

                  The definition of PEDs that I posted was just my opinion given off the top of my head. And yes, I agree that hi tech shoes and Oxygen tents could do the same things just not to an illegal degree.
                  The fool has said...there is no God. Psa 14

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Speedfirst
                    Steriods does enhance performances
                    Anabolic steroids, undoubtably yes. Barto claims that corticosteroids "administered in bloodstream" (I assume, he means IV route) also have a PED effect. This I have never heard before, that is why I asked for references.
                    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                    by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pego
                      Originally posted by Speedfirst
                      Steriods does enhance performances
                      Anabolic steroids, undoubtably yes. Barto claims that corticosteroids "administered in bloodstream" (I assume, he means IV route) also have a PED effect. This I have never heard before, that is why I asked for references.
                      Of which I am referring to (anabolic steriods).
                      on the road

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                      • #26
                        Interesting coincidence on pain killers (including a literal sense). A recent paper (NY Times today?) had a piece about how aspirin might have been complicit in some of the deaths during the 1918-19 flu pandemic. It had recent been available as a generic (Bayer patent ended) and was available with no warning labels, advised for use in treating the flu (at least it symptoms) with sometimes very large doses. Interesting piece, although it states that is is likely only a small impact on the total number of deaths.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 26mi235
                          Interesting coincidence on pain killers (including a literal sense). A recent paper (NY Times today?) had a piece about how aspirin might have been complicit in some of the deaths during the 1918-19 flu pandemic. It had recent been available as a generic (Bayer patent ended) and was available with no warning labels, advised for use in treating the flu (at least it symptoms) with sometimes very large doses. Interesting piece, although it states that is is likely only a small impact on the total number of deaths.
                          You don't recall the dose, I assume. It'd be great, if you could dig it out ;-).
                          "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                          by Thomas Henry Huxley

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                          • #28
                            I think the word 'natural' always will be highly debatable, which is why I agree on speedfirst's comment that what matters is what's on the list. The rules are the rules which is how it should be

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                            • #29
                              Aspirin packages were produced containing no warnings about toxicity and few instructions about use. In the fall of 1918, facing a widespread deadly disease with no known cure, the surgeon general and the United States Navy recommended aspirin as a symptomatic treatment, and the military bought large quantities of the drug.

                              The Journal of the American Medical Association suggested a dose of 1,000 milligrams every three hours, the equivalent of almost 25 standard 325-milligram aspirin tablets in 24 hours. This is about twice the daily dosage generally considered safe today.

                              http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/he...ml?ref=science

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                              • #30
                                Thank you, 26mi235. 8 gms of aspirin/day is a huge dose, especially for a week or longer. I wonder, how many died of liver failure.
                                "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
                                by Thomas Henry Huxley

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