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  • #31
    Originally posted by malmo
    Originally posted by Gebfan2

    malmo's right on as usual on technical/biomechanical/physiological points about distance running. Thanks. Tomorrow is supposed to be sunny in Chicago, so that will help greatly with the slightly too-cold temps...
    Not so fast, the starttime is 7am. Not much of a help. But had the temps been 50 or 60, the 7am start would have helped qreatly.
    Good point. And the predicted starting temp has dropped slightly to 31F. But the predicted wind speed has also dropped slightly to 5 mph, and shifted slightly from NW to WNW, so will be less of a headwind and more of a crosswind at the start.

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    • #32
      Study: a careful examination or analysis of a phenomenon, development, or question.

      Obviously, they are simply analysing data. The link reports the result of their analysis. I am simply tossing it into the discussion, and I certainly do not think it is a rigorous scientific study, but it is fodder for the discussion.

      Comment


      • #33
        Here's your formal abstract malmo. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that this is a strict analysis of data, which can only tell you so much....
        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17473775

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 2 cents
          I am simply tossing it into the discussion, and I certainly do not think it is a rigorous scientific study, but it is fodder for the discussion.
          I didn't think you were doing anything less.... or more... or whatever.

          Comment


          • #35
            Interesting discussion about optimal temperature range for endurance events.
            Our big marathon and half-marathon and 8K. start at 7:15 / 7:30 / and 8:30 am tomorrow (today for most of you, very soon), and the forecast is for a temperature of about 3-5 degrees C. ( mid to high thirties F. ) at the start, plus the courses are along the waterfront, with a usual probability of some winds. It will be interesting to see how the athletes dress for the occasion, as those temperatures, especially with the wind chill possibility, seem sub-optimal to me. Perhaps even more so, because we have been enjoying a beautiful late Summer / early Fall run of weather (Indian Summer, LW?) and this is our first hint of what will inevitably follow...We are leaning towards half tights under short, t-shirts under singlets, and throw-away gloves for the start.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by 2 cents
              Here's your formal abstract malmo. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that this is a strict analysis of data, which can only tell you so much....
              http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17473775
              It is 7:30 CT and it is 34ºF (1ºC) and cloudy in Chicago. I attended my grandson's football game yesterday morning at 34ºF, and, boy, was it cold.
              I see that the above quoted analysis doesn't even extend as low as 1ºC. Their lowest is 5ºC, a whooping 8ºF higher.
              "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
              by Thomas Henry Huxley

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              • #37
                Commentators are saying 4:35 first mile (fastest ever first mile in Chicago), and 8 seconds ahead of WR pace at two miles. Wanjiru is really going for it! At the start, commentators and some of the athletes (such as Deena) are actually loving the weather and there is minimal wind.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Pego
                  Originally posted by 2 cents
                  Here's your formal abstract malmo. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that this is a strict analysis of data, which can only tell you so much....
                  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17473775
                  It is 7:30 CT and it is 34ºF (1ºC) and cloudy in Chicago. I attended my grandson's football game yesterday morning at 34ºF, and, boy, was it cold.
                  I see that the above quoted analysis doesn't even extend as low as 1ºC. Their lowest is 5ºC, a whooping 8ºF higher.
                  14:33 5k, 18:41 4 miles.

                  Pego, do runners lose fluids faster or slower as ambient temps drop?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    The split table... (Are official live splits for Chicago '09 available anywhere?)

                    km - Tergat - Lel         - Geb07 - Geb08   - Rot09  - Lond09 - Makau
                    05 - 0:15:01 - 0:14:22 - 0:14:44 - 0:14:34 - 0:14:41 - 0:14:08 - 0:14:46
                    10 - 0:29:58 - 0:29:10 - 0:29:27 - 0:29:12 - 0:29:18 - 0:28:30 - 0:29:14
                    15 - 0:44:46 - 0:44:00 - 0:44:16 - 0:44:02 - 0:44:15 - 0:43:12 - 0:43:55
                    20 - 0:59:45 - 0:58:58 - 0:59:10 - 0:58:49 - 0:59:05 - 0:58:14 - 0:58:37
                    ½ - 1:03:03 - 1:02:13 - 1:02:29 - 1:02:03 - 1:02:35 - 1:01:35 - 1:02:06
                    25 - 1:14:43 - 1:13:47 - 1:14:05 - 1:13:39 - 1:14:07 - 1:13:35 - 1:13:49
                    30 - 1:29:25 - 1:28:29 - 1:28:56 - 1:28:27 - 1:28:52 - 1:28:35 - 1:28:56
                    35 - 1:44:00 - 1:43:54 - 1:43:38 - 1:43:05 - 1:43:15 - 1:43:18 - 1:43:50
                    40 - 1:58:38 - 1:58:53 - 1:58:08 - 1:57:34 - 1:57:54 - 1:58:32 - 1:58:36
                    Fin - 2:04:55 - 2:05:15 - 2:04:26 - 2:03:59 - 2:04:27 - 2:05:10 - 2:04:48

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I moved race talk over to a separate thread, because the physiology discussions here are great, and I hate to see them lost.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        14:34, 14:38, 14: 47, 14:49 first 4 5k splits

                        1:02:01 at 1/2

                        Sammy not taking much fluids, and seem to be doing better job of running the tangents as the pack has thinned...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Pego
                          Originally posted by Gebfan2
                          Pego, do runners lose fluids faster or slower as ambient temps drop?
                          I'd say slower, but it's been a long time since I paid much attention to respiratory physiology.
                          Slower but the problem is that you aren't feeling the loss as much so have to remember to drink early and often. It doesn't look windy or wet which is what drains your energy in cold conditions. Seems like pace setting is going to be the key.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gebfan2
                            Joel did this some time ago. See this thread.
                            Thanks Decfan.

                            Joel summarized the ranges for the 11 fastest marathons:

                            Start time ranges:
                            Temp: 37.4F - 55.4F
                            Dew Point: 18.0F - 48.2F
                            Humidity: 30% - 100%
                            Wind Speed: 0 - 10.4mph

                            End time ranges:
                            Temp: 41.0F - 62.6F
                            Dew Point: 21.9F - 50.0F
                            Humidity: 47% - 87%
                            Wind Speed: 2.3mph - 15.0mph

                            The median starting temperature for these 11 fastest races was 44.6 degrees and the mean starting temp was 45.56F. The median finishing temp was 50.0F and the mean finiishing temp was 51.14F.......[/quote]

                            What the data doesn't show is what the median starting temperature was for, say the 50 fastest Big City (i.e., legit WR-attempt fields of the last decade) races, regardless of time. And if it did, suspect there are almost no (or none at all?) data points for one as cold as this start, so it doesn't tell us anything truly definitive.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by gh
                              Originally posted by Gebfan2
                              Joel did this some time ago. See this thread.
                              Thanks Decfan.

                              Joel summarized the ranges for the 11 fastest marathons:

                              Start time ranges:
                              Temp: 37.4F - 55.4F
                              Dew Point: 18.0F - 48.2F
                              Humidity: 30% - 100%
                              Wind Speed: 0 - 10.4mph

                              End time ranges:
                              Temp: 41.0F - 62.6F
                              Dew Point: 21.9F - 50.0F
                              Humidity: 47% - 87%
                              Wind Speed: 2.3mph - 15.0mph

                              The median starting temperature for these 11 fastest races was 44.6 degrees and the mean starting temp was 45.56F. The median finishing temp was 50.0F and the mean finiishing temp was 51.14F.......
                              What the data doesn't show is what the median starting temperature was for, say the 50 fastest Big City (i.e., legit WR-attempt fields of the last decade) races, regardless of time. And if it did, suspect there are almost no (or none at all?) data points for one as cold as this start, so it doesn't tell us anything truly definitive.[/quote]

                              Agree.

                              kuha wrote:
                              Is the question: How large will the piano be?


                              Guitar sized...

                              back to 3:00 ks after 2 2:54-55 at 36 to 37k markers

                              14:34, 14:38, 14: 47, 14:51, 14:49, 15:07, 15:12, 14:58 5ks through 40k

                              2:05:39CR

                              How much did the 35F temp slow them down?

                              36.2F, 4mph NW wind with gusts to 9 mph (HEADWIND) ... at time of finish...

                              Was this the fastest marathon ever when adjusted for the temperature?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                It is a little misleading to look at the frequency distribution of the fast times (vs Temp) only without looking at the frequency distribution of the top races run at those temperatures. [For example, assume that one one top race was run when temps were 1-3C at start and that race was in the top marks (e.g., WR); it would only have one entry but the conditional frequency would be 1. I suspect that if you looked at Fukuoka, which had some cool temps and plotted times, adjusted maybe for the runners PRs etc. you could get some insight.

                                I am not disputing the physiology comments and think 45-55 is best for start and 50-60 for finish, also depends on sun, wind, etc.

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