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It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    I know this is an oldish thread, but still oh so relevant!
    I think Bekele, as with any ethiopian can win big meets because like Geb they concentrate on an event. The Kenyan runners tend to race alot throughout the season chasing money, and fair enough. But it must have some bearing on the outcome of major meets.

    P.S. If any one can ever do the Zatopek again I think Geb should do it in athens, otherwise it is lost forever.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    I think if someone does the pace setting you will see more guys in the low 12:40 range. Bekele would make an ideal rabbit to pull them along and see if anyone has anything left in the last 2-400.

    Again- Geb is a very special case. Incredible speed and strength. He was also smart in not over racing. He saved himself for the biggies and didn't run CC. I don't think a Bekele/Komen style runner, without the big kick, will be able to dominate as Geb has done. But, I hope I'm wrong - it would be fun to see.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    I don't see any 12:40 runners out there at the moment. In fact, the level of long-distance running is definitely lower than it was 5 or 6 years ago. Last year we saw a whole of bunch of Africans running in the 12:55-13:00 range, but no one really standing out. OK, with the right pacesetting they might go 12:50 or so, but if anyone can get close to Geb's WR, he will be in a class of his own. If a runner of this kind appears (whether it's Bekele or anyone else), he will be able to win major championships Komen-style.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    To Cyril: I
    >never said most races were won in that way. I
    >also did refer to it as 'doing it the hard way'.
    >So yes, I do realize it ain't easy, but it IS
    >possible.

    Your bringing up Kennedy, Holman et
    >al. in this context is totally irrelevant. None
    >of them were ever anywhere near being the best in
    >the world. You cannot win from the front if you
    >can't sustain a harder pace than anyone else in
    >the race. Kennedy was a 12:58 runner racing
    >against lots of Africans capable of doing 12:50
    >or so. If Bekele can run 12:40, it will be a
    >different story altogether.

    We do agree that it is possible to win from the front, but if there is another runner also capable of 12:40 in the same race (and most likely there will be others) the victor will be the one who has trailed and is able to kick.

    Re: Holman, Kennedy, Scott etc. - granted none other than Scott was truely at a level to be able to possibly win, but all tried to lead and ended up meat in the late stages placing much lower than they would have if they had not used this strategey. So my point is leading takes a tremendous about of pyscological and physical energy and makes it extremely difficult to pull off a great race. You're right - not impossible just very difficult. If Bekele can do this against the depth of today's world-class runners it will be quite phenomenal...but his CC running is phenomenal, so maybe.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    Komen didn't lead from the beginning of the race, but my point was that there are other ways of winning races besides running a fast final 200 meters, so this example fits perfectly here. I guess if we could come up with 6 examples of men's major championship finals within the last 16 years which were won in that way, that means it is still very much possible.

    To Cyril: I never said most races were won in that way. I also did refer to it as 'doing it the hard way'. So yes, I do realize it ain't easy, but it IS possible.

    Your bringing up Kennedy, Holman et al. in this context is totally irrelevant. None of them were ever anywhere near being the best in the world. You cannot win from the front if you can't sustain a harder pace than anyone else in the race. Kennedy was a 12:58 runner racing against lots of Africans capable of doing 12:50 or so. If Bekele can run 12:40, it will be a different story altogether.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    >Komen '97 was more of a midrace surge... but
    >yikes! What a midrace surge it was.

    As I
    >recall, John Ngugi took his lead pretty early
    >(midrace at latest) in the Seoul Olympics.


    after 3 laps IIRC

    jd

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  • sl
    replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    Komen '97 was more of a midrace surge... but yikes! What a midrace surge it was.

    As I recall, John Ngugi took his lead pretty early (midrace at latest) in the Seoul Olympics.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    Add to that Ismael Kirui in 1993 and Komen in 1997 - that makes it five off the top of MY head :-p

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    >>>How many major championships since Zatopek have
    >been won with front running tactics?>>

    Just
    >off the top of my head, Kipkoech in '87, Boutaïb
    >in '88, Tanui in '91 (although Chelimo did most
    >of the leading).

    Three of off the top of your head, and the last in 91 and as you said Chelimo led most of the '91. That's not too good. How many who took the lead early placed lower than they would have if they had not lead?

    Maybe Kennedy, Scott, Holman and Hamilton could help to answer that question. Its ballsy to lead but its almost always also suicidal.

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  • dl
    replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    >>How many major championships since Zatopek have been won with front running tactics?>>

    Just off the top of my head, Kipkoech in '87, Boutaïb in '88, Tanui in '91 (although Chelimo did most of the leading).

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    Watch for Meb.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    >I have a little fantasy 10k race...

    Geb,
    >Yifter, Viren all enter the bell lap together
    >...

    who wins??

    Is it the guy who makes the
    >last move??

    Or can one of the three make a
    >move from far enough out to sustain his kick??

    No question - Geb. All great finishers but he's in a class of his own.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    >Agreed, Gebre was winning major championships
    >with his sprint finish. But the point is, being
    >able to run 12:39/26:22 he could have won from
    >the front, pushing the pace, had he wanted to -
    >he just didn't have to do it.

    I don't think Geb would have won as frequently running from the front. How many major championships since Zatopek have been won with front running tactics? Geb's superiority is/was his finish not his mid-race strength. He is strong but given an equally determined and gifted competitor he would with with his his finish.

    If there is no Geb or if Geb has lost his a bit of his speed he Bekele may have a shot. But there are some very strong and very fast finishing Kenyans who are not likely to give him the race.

    Geb is very special as is El G. Will Bekele be in that class? Only time will tell but it will be very difficult without the finishing speed. It will be exciting to see him try to take some of the sting away from his competitors.

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  • dl
    replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    Geb would win that race. If it were 27:00 pace, the others would be dead with a lap to go. If it were 27:30 pace, Geb would be jogging and could easily throw down a 53.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Re: It's on! Geb versus Bekele over 10K in Hengelo

    I have a little fantasy 10k race...

    Geb, Yifter, Viren all enter the bell lap together ...

    who wins??

    Is it the guy who makes the last move??

    Or can one of the three make a move from far enough out to sustain his kick??

    Leave a comment:

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