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Clement =WJR in 400

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  • Clement =WJR in 400

    While Clement didn't win the race, looks like his 45.90 = the WJR ... b/d 10/31/85 ... With a shot to lower it next season ...

  • #2
    Re: Clement =WJR in 400

    Uh, Clement who where why what when?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Clement =WJR in 400

      >Uh, Clement who where why what when?<

      Kerron Clement (Florida freshman), Fayetteville, 'cuz he ran fast, he ran fast, last Saturday.

      But Conway is wrong if he thinks he can do better as a Junior next year. If he was born in 1985,
      this is the last year that he will be a Junior.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Clement =WJR in 400

        Unless my math is bad the kid will be 19 throughout the season and last time I checked 19 year olds were Juniors are they not ???

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        • #5
          Re: Clement =WJR in 400

          Long as they don't turn 20 during the year. Which is why 'Junior' and 'age-19' records should be kept. They're often different...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Clement =WJR in 400

            Junior or no, I can't wait to see him over the hurdles this year.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Clement =WJR in 400

              >Unless my math is bad the kid will be 19 throughout the season and last time I
              checked 19 year olds were Juniors are they not ???<

              This may have just been a mis-understanding. When you said "next season" I assumed you meant 2005. (I think of this year's outdoor season as "this season.") If we're both talking about 2004, we're in total agreement--he should be an outstanding Junior. But Junior status requires being 19 throughout the calendar year, so next year (2005) he will not be a Junior.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                Now that I re-read Conway's original message, I see that there was no mis-understanding. He WAS referring to next year's indoor season (since the context was the indoor junior 400m record) and he was wrong, for the reasons I mentioned in my last post.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                  >Unless my math is bad the kid will be 19 throughout the season and last time I
                  >checked 19 year olds were Juniors are they not ???

                  Love to know where you 'checked'. To be a junior in 2004 means to be born 1985 or later; to be a junior in 2005 means to be born 1986 or later. Darrel Brown, for example, though born in October 84 and thus 19 all this season, is not a junior this year, though he may well break the world age 19 record for 100m (which is?...your chance to redeem yourself Conway).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                    >>Unless my math is bad the kid will be 19 throughout the season and last time
                    >I
                    >checked 19 year olds were Juniors are they not ???

                    Love to know where
                    >you 'checked'. To be a junior in 2004 means to be born 1985 or later; to be a
                    >junior in 2005 means to be born 1986 or later. Darrel Brown, for example,
                    >though born in October 84 and thus 19 all this season, is not a junior this
                    >year, though he may well break the world age 19 record for 100m (which
                    >is?...your chance to redeem yourself Conway).


                    Which is 10.00 by Carl Lewis in 1981 ... My misunderstanding as I thought that one had to be under 20 when the record was set in order to qualify ... Seems like another case of our sport having a rather assinine rule ... Pity for both Brown and Clement as neither will end up getting the respect they will be do ... Given of course that they perform up to expectations ...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                      My misunderstanding as I thought that one had to be
                      >under 20 when the record was set in order to qualify ... Seems like another
                      >case of our sport having a rather assinine rule ...

                      No, it isn't. It would be assinine if athletes could be considered juniors for part of the season and not for the rest of it. Imagine the following situations:
                      - The World Juniors host country has a major medal hope whose 20th birthday falls 1 day before the World Juniors Champs start. They make a major push to reschedule the event to gain an additional medal. Conversely, they could try to postpone the champs by a few days to eliminate a competitor who is a major threat to the local hope.
                      - An athlete is eligible to compete in the US Juniors, which serve as the trials for World Juniors. He qualifies, but is unable to compete because he turns 20 in the meantime. To make it even more nonsensical, an athlete could be eligible to compete in the heats, qualify for the final (which takes place, say, 2 days later) and not be able to compete in it because he's no longer a junior.
                      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                        Sorry, but it is assinine that Brown and Clement will both be 19 throught the entire competitive season of being 19 and yet will NOT qualify for WJR status should they break those records !!! The examples you gave are nit picky, made up situations to attempt to prove a point ... I am talking reality here ... And reality is that should Brown run 9.99 or better this year he will NOT be the WJR holder in spite of the fact that when the competitive season is over he will STILL be 19 years old !!! Same will go for Clement next year should he break the 400H record ... And in both cases the "Age 19" Record would be BETTER than the WJR - which is supposed to represent the Under 20 athlete ... THAT is assinine ... The cases you gave could be judiciously dealt with ... The cases I describe make the sport look stupid ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                          >And reality is that should Brown run 9.99 or better this year he will NOT be the WJR holder in spite of the fact that when the competitive season is over he will STILL be 19 years old !!!<

                          But he is not and will not be a Junior, which is different from being a 19-year old.

                          The examples Powell game may have been made up but they are real possibilities. People do have birthdays every single day of the year. If a guy was born on July 1 (as Carl Lewis was, among others) and was born in 1984, and we defined Junior by birth date rather than birth year, he could compete in the US Juniors in late June this year but not the World Juniors three weeks later. I agree with Powell that this would not be a good idea.

                          The definition of a Junior has been this way for as long as I can remember and it works just fine.

                          BTW, they do the same thing in horse racing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                            Not to be nit-picky, but the cut off needs to be somewhere and the calendar year is fairly clear to understand. As a foot note, Angelo Taylor missed out on a truly impressive WJ record by 3 days. His birth day is De. 29. In 1998, as sophomore at Ga.Tech, he ran 47.90 and was world ranked #3. He was born in 1978. If he had been born Jan 1, 1979 he would have crushed Danny Harris' 48.02 WJ record. Of course, he was ineligible for the World Jr that year as well. I think he would have been favored :-)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Clement =WJR in 400

                              >>And reality is that should Brown run 9.99 or better this year he will NOT be
                              >the WJR holder in spite of the fact that when the competitive season is over he
                              >will STILL be 19 years old !!!<

                              But he is not and will not be a Junior,
                              >which is different from being a 19-year old.

                              The examples Powell game may
                              >have been made up but they are real possibilities. People do have birthdays
                              >every single day of the year. If a guy was born on July 1 (as Carl Lewis was,
                              >among others) and was born in 1984, and we defined Junior by birth date rather
                              >than birth year, he could compete in the US Juniors in late June this year but
                              >not the World Juniors three weeks later. I agree with Powell that this would
                              >not be a good idea.

                              The definition of a Junior has been this way for as
                              >long as I can remember and it works just fine.

                              BTW, they do the same thing
                              >in horse racing.


                              Simply because something has always been done that way is not cause in and of itself to continue .. Progress occurs when the status quo changes ... Thank God Abe Lincoln didn't think that way ...

                              The previous example that was given regarding Angelo Taylor is exactly the kind of injustice that has and will continue to occur under the current status quo ... What harm would be caused by simply stating that the individual has to maintain that age throughout the competitive season ??? Defining the competitive season as ending say the final day of September since few meets are ever conducted past that point ... And in those few cases where they do - say the meet is in October for some ghastly reason - that a mark is allowed if the individual is still age 19 ??? What would that hurt (or change) other than the obvious changing something that has always been ??? I don't remember any of you crying when MJ asked for the Olympics themselves to be changed so he could comfortably complete his double ... So what is the harm in allowing 19 year olds the right/ability to attempt to break Junior records ???

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