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A Subtle Change In High School Lists

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  • abinferno
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    If anyone objects to the state championship cutoff, then at the very least the so-called national championships, even though there are two..., should be the end of the high school season. These are the last true high school meets.

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    As a practical matter, I think a very significant number of schools now begin classes in August (I remember when I was in school we didn't start until first week of October!).

    Half the Pac-10 is August (I didn't check, but perhaps it's split along the lines of if you're a quarter school or semester school?)

    For this summer:
    8/23--Washington State, USC, Arizona, Arizona State
    8/30--Cal
    9/27--Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, UCLA
    9/29--Washington

    Who has first-hand knowledge of other major institutions of higher learning?

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    My personal vote (which obviously doesn't hold sway with our HS Editors!) would be that the GWI/AOC meets should mark the end of the HS season (just as we end the collegiate season with the NCAA Championships).

    Anything after that is age-group competition, which is clearly not the same thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • RMc
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    >I still maintain that the state championship should be the last meet to count
    >for high school records. I don't believe that the "national" high school
    >meets are sanctioned by the UIL, the high school governing body. All other
    >records after the state meet should be age or junior records.

    Who gives a hoot about whether a meet is sanctioned by that idiotic organization, the UIL? They're the fools that gave us the 1600/3200 fiasco! They give us the ridiculous "uniform" rules. Plus these are NATIONAL records, not STATE records--that means that these records should be eligible to be set in NATIONAL competitions. The national federation is so jealous of its jurisdiction that it has threatened to disqualify athletes who compete in these NATIONAL competitions. The national federation already has its own national records--it can maintain those separately.
    For TFN, we want to see the "real" HS records--those that occur under all conditions while a student is considered to be in high school, including during vacation periods. The obvious answer to the cutoff date is Aug. 15. I don't believe any universities begin their fall semesters before that date, and it's after the JOs.

    Leave a comment:


  • abinferno
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    I still maintain that the state championship should be the last meet to count for high school records. I don't believe that the "national" high school meets are sanctioned by the UIL, the high school governing body. All other records after the state meet should be age or junior records.

    Leave a comment:


  • hj197steve
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    September 1. It it ain't broke, don't fix it !!!

    Leave a comment:


  • owlfred
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    Both Oldvaulter and tafnut make a great deal of sense, but I cannot understand the reason of ht30 making the cutoff at graduation. We are at a point where some school's graduation is within a few days of some state's championship. Certainly as many universities are calling in-coming freshmen on campus for orientation a full week before August 31 - and a few earlier than that, it interferes with the Aug. 31 deadline. However, any high school athlete good enough to be pushing a HS Record is very certainly going to be on scholarship at some university and required to attend the orientation - this tends to eliminate the slight potential of a European meet late in August. It seems to me that tafnut makes sense retaining the 31st of Aug. with a qualification of attendance at his/her university's orientation week.

    Leave a comment:


  • ht30
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    If by "end of the JO season" they mean the last day of the National JO Championships, that makes sense as a cutoff date. The national JO meet is held the first week in August. This is after Golden West and other major hs and summer invitational meets and before most students head for college.

    Leave a comment:


  • abinferno
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    The time frame for any high school record should end when your high school senior season ends, at the state championship. Any marks after that should only be considered for age records and junior records. I can't believe no one has suggested this. It's the only answer that makes sense. High school is over once you take your finals and graduate, therefore marks made during the summer after your senior year should not be considered high school records.

    Leave a comment:


  • tafnut
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    It should remain Aug 31, with the caveat that the athlete cannot have enrolled in college yet.

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    We had a situation last summer where it appeared we had a new HSR in the women's hammer in August. Only problem was she was already in college and competing there!

    Leave a comment:


  • jhc68
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    Yeah, I was there watching Stones jump in Montreal. The roof was no closer to being finished than the one in Athens is now. Dwight was lucky to even get 3rd. He beat the Soviet on misses. When it got down to the nitty gritty it was wet, not soaking, but wet. Stones gave the impression of running twice as fast on his approach than either Joy or Wszola. They were plodding, thump, thump, power jumpers by comparison. Joy looked the part: he gave the impression of brut strength. Wszola was tall, all arms and legs and looked like he weighed about 150 lbs., but he had great power and balance. His slight build may have helped him maintain control of his run up and take off. But Dwight couldn't hold traction over the turn on his last couple of steps and on his last attempts never got off a legit looking attempt.

    Leave a comment:


  • hj197steve
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    >Here's a related question: What constitutes 'Indoor'? Is it a location or a
    >season? I seem to recall a HS shot putter 10 years ago or so set a high
    >ranking 'indoor' mark in June. Bad weather at the state meet took them inside.
    >To be facetious, could we say the '76 olympics, with the retractable roof
    >closed, could be considered indoor?

    Don't talk about the "retractable roof" to Dwight Stones ! The roof was not finished until
    AFTER the Olympics, as they got behind schedule. As a result, when it rained, well, it rained. On the day of the HJ final it rained hard, Dwight was adversely affected more than others, and although the big favorite, he slipped to third. If the retractable roof had been completed and used that day, who knows ?

    Leave a comment:


  • buckeye II
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    Here's a related question: What constitutes 'Indoor'? Is it a location or a season? I seem to recall a HS shot putter 10 years ago or so set a high ranking 'indoor' mark in June. Bad weather at the state meet took them inside. To be facetious, could we say the '76 olympics, with the retractable roof closed, could be considered indoor?

    Leave a comment:


  • dl
    replied
    Re: A Subtle Change In High School Lists

    This makes sense to me. Imagine if an athlete records a mark on August 30 after his/her senior year, but has already started college, should this be a high school record? I don't think so.

    Leave a comment:

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