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  • #31
    Re: Texas Relays

    Smith wins, 8024. Kilmartin can't catch Hardee:

    http://texassports.com/results/tr2004/040331F001.htm

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Texas Relays

      I can't speak to age-group rules, but IAAF, USTAF and NCAA rules are all the same on breaking ties in verticals.

      1. See how many tries it took to take to clear the ultimate height, with fewest tries winning, no matter what happened at lower heights.

      2. If multiple people cleared the height on same attempt, then you count number of misses in the entire competition (including the last height cleared).

      3. If they're still tied there are two procedures: if it involves 1st place you go into a jumpoff; if it involves 2nd or lower, you simply leave them tied.

      Decathletes and heptathletes don't go into any jumpoffs.

      If you have a situation like an OT/WC qualifying thing in the U.S. and you have, say two people tied for the third spot, procedure is to wait until the regular competition is over and then the tied people jump off for the team spot.

      Rules say that marks made in jumpoffs are eligible for World Records, etc. But statisticians don't accept for lists marks made in to-make-team jumpoffs, since the competition, by the rules, is already over, and those are viewed as "extra attempts."

      Did I miss anything? Even more important--did I get anything wrong?

      (The oldies among you will remember that at one time there was a third criterion in the tie-breaking setup, which was to count total attempts--this disappeared a decade or more ago.)

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Texas Relays

        >OV, can you weigh in on this colloquy ? I'm pretty sure I'm right, at all
        >levels of competition. There are plenty of officials, particularly at lower
        >levels that do not know all the rules correctly."

        Hmmmm...I thought decacoach was correct but I just had a look on IAAF.org (the rules are on there) and it appears Steve is, may be worth double checking, my look was cursory as I'm in the middle of doing something. I haven't thought about this for 19 years, did the rules change or is my memory shot?

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Texas Relays

          So now the nay-sayers will cry that "Dono"
          comitted to UT and with the departure of Dan P.
          is now being fowled by lesser coaching...

          Let the "Friday Morning Quarterbacking" begin...

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Texas Relays

            Miss rules.

            It seems we are both right (and I got robbed at nationals). It ISN'T total misses at the penultimate height. One guy can have ten misses, the other one, and the ten miss guy can win if he clears the winning height FIRST. Right?

            But if they tie at that height on misses, THEN it's all the misses, not the next highest height. It's been 8 years I think, but I'm petitioning for the gold on that one. haha

            Oh, by the way. Congrats on Maurice winning and the great comp for second.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Texas Relays

              On another interesting tie-breaking note, I read in the NCAA rulebook (granted, it's the 2003 version, 2004 is on order) that the NCAA doesn't break ties in the multis. IAAF and USATF do.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Texas Relays

                kilmarten is a good athlete, but does not have enough speed to match the europeans. If he could'nt pole vault he would not be much of a decathlete. I can name about 20 athletes that can beat him easily if not for the pole vault and they're not decathletes.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Texas Relays

                  kilmarten is a good athlete, but does not have enough speed to match the europeans. If he could'nt pole vault he would not be much of a decathlete. I can name about 20 athletes that can beat him easily if not for the pole vault and they're not decathletes.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Texas Relays

                    kilmarten is a good athlete, but does not have enough speed to match the europeans. If he could'nt pole vault he would not be much of a decathlete. I can name about 20 athletes that can beat him easily if not for the pole vault and they're not decathletes.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Texas Relays

                      Just got back from the track a couple of hours ago. Interesting observations in the 400H prelims: Florida's Rickey Harris was cruising to an easy winner when he crashed the last hurdle hard. He laid on the track holding his knee for quite a while, and then limped off the track. His new teammate Kerron Clemont did much better -- he had the fastest qualifier by more than a second. Even though he was stutter-stepping like crazy, he still ran a 49.94! If he can work out his steps, he could easily take another second off. Heck, I daresay he could get in the LOW 48s. Talent like that is scary.
                      "Run fast and keep turning left."

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Texas Relays

                        I witnessed the following situation a few years ago at the Kusocinski Memorial in Warsaw (one of Poland's biggest meet): two women were tied for first place in the PV competition. Both Monika Pyrek (who was one of the two) and her coach were trying to persuade the officials that a tie-breaker was necessary. Alas, all to no avail... The officials' position was that 'tie-breakers are only used in championship competitions'. Pyrek was unhappy about it, since the tie-breaker would have given her another shot at setting a NR, which she was very capable of doing.

                        I'm sure the officials were wrong on this, too - I've seen tie-breakers in GP meets and other non-championship competitions on various occasions...
                        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Texas Relays

                          >(The oldies among you will remember
                          >that at one time there was a third criterion in the tie-breaking setup, which
                          >was to count total attempts--this disappeared a decade or more ago.)

                          Actually this the last (latest?) change to the IAAF rule happened THREE decades ago (1973-1974). So anyone (judge, coach, athlete) under the age of at least 40 should never have experienced any other rule which he/she could confuse with the current one.
                          But still confusion seems rampant as this is definitely the rule most often not correctly applied - and I am not speaking only about the JO level.
                          At the USATF indoors this winter e.g. it was first announced - and listed in the official results published - that Russ Buller finished 2nd (and thus qualified for the World Indoors) in the PV ahead of Jeff Hartwig although both made 5.75 on 2nd attempt and Buller was having 3 and Hartwig 2 misses in total at lower heights.
                          I don't know what happened at the medal ceremony on site in the Reggie Lewis Arena but it took almost one day before the placings were corrected (note: the series were correct all the time!) in the official results posted on the web.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Texas Relays

                            thanks Garry for laying out ALL the tie breakers... I was pretty sure I was correct and you confirmed it for all of us, and maybe a few well meaning but wrong officials out there !

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Texas Relays

                              Kilmartin not having enough speed to compete with the europeans.

                              Current world record holder Roman Serble at age 22 ran 10.94 and 10.85 in his 100 meter decathlon. Donovan is 20 and has run 11.07 in March. I don't see a lot to catch up on. That said remember Hardee (same age) just beat Kilmartin on his home track, and ran 10.58! And Hardee lost last year to Soph Powell, who just ran 10.99. As I said before, this seems to be the next wave of Decathletes rolling through, after the Pappas, Clay, Terek, Harris group.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Texas Relays

                                >I witnessed the following situation a few years ago at the Kusocinski Memorial
                                >in Warsaw (one of Poland's biggest meet): two women were tied for first place
                                >in the PV competition. Both Monika Pyrek (who was one of the two) and her coach
                                >were trying to persuade the officials that a tie-breaker was necessary. Alas,
                                >all to no avail... The officials' position was that 'tie-breakers are only used
                                >in championship competitions'. Pyrek was unhappy about it, since the
                                >tie-breaker would have given her another shot at setting a NR, which she was
                                >very capable of doing.

                                I'm sure the officials were wrong on this, too - I've
                                >seen tie-breakers in GP meets and other non-championship competitions on
                                >various occasions...>>

                                Yes, the officials were wrong. The IAAF rules make no distinctino about level of competition.

                                Comment

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