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  • World Champ fields

    We have talked this a number of times and I think it is interesting, why do we follow Olympic protocols at Worlds? We are not out to promote peace and sportsmanship, we are trying to determine the best in the world.
    I would be VERY comfortable with qualifying the top 8 in the world or even 16 and then filling in the fields accordingly. Prime example is the 110HH. A lot of good hurdlers seasons end after US trials, every year, while mediocre hurdlers win medals and entry to worlds because they are from other countries.
    In 2008, Liu and TT got hurt and the quality of the hottest race at the games dropped off the cliff. We were left with Robles, David and David, and then everyone else. If I recall 13.6 made the Olympic final. And there are other events that suffer in quality from other countries also because of this.
    Why doesn't the IAAF address this glaring discrepency?

  • #2
    Re: World Champ fields

    I second the motion.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: World Champ fields

      We have been down this road multiple times and I am with both of you. But I remember GH or someone in the know saying something radical like top 8 would require a complete restructuring of how the IAAF is set up. Power would have to be concentrated with the nations that actually produce the most top athletes and no one thought that was likely to happen.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: World Champ fields

        Texas HS champs is 8 person final and a heck of a meet. As far as I know, all finalists in each event could be from the same HS, if regional qualifying was eliminated. Under the top 2 from each region format, some good kids don't make the meet. That is avoidable if they adopted a seasonal performance ranking.
        If all eight steeplechasers in Oly or WC are from Kenya, so be it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: World Champ fields

          You're right. That's the way it should be.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: World Champ fields

            well if each event had 16 competitors here is what the running events might look like
            men
            100-10 from USA 4 from jamaica, 2 from somewhere else.
            200-about the same as 100, but with maybe 11-12 from USA
            400-11 from USA 5 from elsewhere
            800- 8 from kenya and 8 from somewhere else
            1500-10 from kenya, 6 from elsewhere
            steeple 12 from kenya 4 from elsewhere
            5k-14 from kenya and ethiopia 2 from probably morrocco or USA
            10k-same as 5k
            marathon 16 all from ethiopia or kenya, with some years having 1-2 not from those 2 countries.
            women
            more countries represented, russia isgood in most womens events, japan strong in the marathon.

            in 10-15 years 800-marathon will be basically all african, and the sprints USA and jamaica and occasionally a couple from other carribean countries, nigeria can be a sprint power.

            basically in most events each olympic track wil look like a dual or tri meet.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: World Champ fields

              Originally posted by doug091463
              well if each event had 16 competitors here is what the running events might look like
              men
              100-10 from USA 4 from jamaica, 2 from somewhere else.
              200-about the same as 100, but with maybe 11-12 from USA
              400-11 from USA 5 from elsewhere
              800- 8 from kenya and 8 from somewhere else
              1500-10 from kenya, 6 from elsewhere
              steeple 12 from kenya 4 from elsewhere
              5k-14 from kenya and ethiopia 2 from probably morrocco or USA
              10k-same as 5k
              marathon 16 all from ethiopia or kenya, with some years having 1-2 not from those 2 countries.
              women
              more countries represented, russia isgood in most womens events, japan strong in the marathon.

              in 10-15 years 800-marathon will be basically all african, and the sprints USA and jamaica and occasionally a couple from other carribean countries, nigeria can be a sprint power.

              basically in most events each olympic track wil look like a dual or tri meet.
              Lesson: Be careful what you wish for :wink:

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: World Champ fields

                The problem with this is that it wouldn't encourage development from smaller nations. I mean, we're already bemoaning the demise of track in Europe- what would it do to have sprint finals (hell, semi finals at times) with no European representation at all in them? Young, developmental athletes would never get the first taste of the big time by reaching a semi or a final, how many times have we seen "surprise" medallists go on to be world beaters after making a final and then snatching a medal? Also, it would trickle down to every day meets, where being a "World finallist" will get you into many more major races and therefore give you more experience...

                So in other words, I see the logic in this, but I'm voting for "absolutely not"...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: World Champ fields

                  It might seem a little counter-intuitive, but perhaps the paucity of teamspots is what drives the higher level of performance in certain countries.

                  If the US could take 10 400m runners, if Kenya could have 12 steeplechasers, Cuba 6 triple jumpers, Finland 5 javelin throwers, maybe the performance levels of these athletes would drop rather than rise?

                  Setting the bar high drives performance... so don't mess with it :P

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                  • #10
                    Re: World Champ fields

                    How would we determine the top 8/16? If we used SBs, we'd end up with lots of people going for high altitude in sprints/jumps, big winds in discus/javelin etc. and I'm not convinced we really want that. The only alternative I can see would be some completely arbitrary and almost certainly equally unfair system.

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                    • #11
                      Re: World Champ fields

                      Is this not what the Grand Prix / Golden League / Diamond League circuit is for?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: World Champ fields

                        It also wouldn't surprise me if you started seeing more falsifying of results...

                        Let's face it, some of the times coming out of the old Soviet bloc never get reproduced on the major stage as it is...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: World Champ fields

                          Chris McC - absolutley no. The diamond league golden league follows the "rules" of each meet director. They have the final say so in who competes so you will find subjectivity rather than some objective quotient used to fill lanes here. Smoke is talking about a measure being used to ensure the top athlete race at the iaaf main event, the World Champs. The diamond league is neither the main event or an event where a very creduible measure is used to ensure the best participate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: World Champ fields

                            In 1993/1994 scenario would you have 16 Chinese in the 1500/5000? I think that it provides some strong incentives that might not always be so good.

                            On another score, people keep talking about how one problem with track and field is that it is not enough like a team sport -- the primary time it is a 'team' sport and gets the most interest is in the Olympics and, secondarily, the WCs. The little tweak of adding in the WC defender is nice, and adding the OG champ is, for the year following, even more relevant (more recent, slightly bigger stage).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: World Champ fields

                              Originally posted by Alucard
                              Chris McC - absolutley no. The diamond league golden league follows the "rules" of each meet director. They have the final say so in who competes so you will find subjectivity rather than some objective quotient used to fill lanes here. The diamond league is neither the main event or an event where a very creduible measure is used to ensure the best participate.
                              What? Meet directors routinely put together the very best fields that they can afford. That's the only kicker here: "that they can afford." Sure, the Brussels meet will have a few Belgians sprinkled in, Stockholm will have a few Swedes, etc, but that's perfectly fine. This process strikes me as vastly more "objective" in terms of overall quality than the selection process involved in the Olympics or a WC!

                              Comment

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